The Casual Vacancy - JK Rowling - possible spoilers

mirandashell

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Anyone bought this yet?

I got it 3 days ago and I'm about a third of the way through. And to be honest, I'm not enjoying it much. She seems to have tried really hard to make it 'adult'. There's sex and drugs and c-bombs but it still reads more like YA. I think she tried too hard.

Plus there isn't a single likeable character in the story. No-one I care about. They are all nasty, selfish, self-centred horrible people.

I honestly don't know if I'll finish it but I might force myself just to find out what happens. Cos so far there is very little plot.
 

Kerosene

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I flipped through a couple pages while food shopping and decided to put it down. Maybe I'll read a preview on amazon or something.

There seems to be mix reception about it. Hmm...
 

thothguard51

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In interviews, Rowling's has already said she knows that not everyone will like the book and she is OK with that...

If you ask me, that was a preemptive strike to show bad reviews will not matter to her...
 

leahzero

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Yep, I finished it yesterday. And I freaking loved it.

I'm not a Potter fan. It's far too twee for my taste.

This, though, was excellent. It's incredibly dark and unflinchingly honest. I don't think she's "trying too hard" at all--this is what real life is like, especially for the poor and working class. Her portraits of middle-class condescension and idiocy were right on the mark.

There is actually one character who's completely sympathetic--but yes, the majority of the characters are very flawed people who represent various shades of selfishness and selflessness, greed and kindness.

There were quite a few characters I loved to hate, and others I grudgingly found myself sympathizing with.

The most astounding thing Rowling pulled off in this novel is making you feel for characters despite the completely dickish things they do to each other.

I loved it. Couldn't put it down. But I can see how Potter fans wouldn't like it, as it's far darker and more realistic than the Potterverse.
 

mirandashell

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Ermmmm.... I'm poor and working class and my life is not like that at all. Neither is the life of anyone I know. Yeah, some people have lives like that but it's by no means a majority. Despite what it says in the press.

And please don't patronise me by assuming I thought it would be just like HP. I'm far too intelligent to do that.
 

leahzero

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mirandashell, I made that comment because I believe Rowling IS accurately portraying poverty from MY personal experience. I'm entitled to my anecdotal opinion too, thanks.

Also, taking that comment about Potter personally is your own choice. I did not address it to you.

Anyway, here's a good review of TCV from the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/30/jk-rowling-novel-middle-class-nastiness

The novel has been accused by the Telegraph of being at its weakest when it is "angrily political" – meaning that Rowling dares to criticise the class divisions in society and examine the injustice, inequality, hypocrisy and prejudice which keep them in place. The criticism is the bleat of people who think of themselves as neutral, apolitical and commonsense but are fiercely political in defence of their own privilege. The same people who happily swallow the extreme snobbery of Downton Abbey or laugh at those they label "chavs" and "hoodies" get angry when the arrow hits closer to home.
 

mirandashell

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No, you took your personal experience and applied it to everyone else who is working class and poor. Which is not so. If you had said it related to you, I would have let it pass.

As for the HP comment, how else did you expect me to take seeing as you were replying to my post?
 

mscelina

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*sigh*

Does it matter? One liked the book. One disliked it. I didn't see any personal slights or references in there anywhere. Don't be so defensive--she said she thought that Rowling wasn't trying too hard at all. I'm not seeing how that translates into something slanderous. It was just an opinion.

For me, I'm looking forward to reading the book. I hope Rowling finds a nice, peaceful niche in the adult market where she can write stories she loves without stalkers going through her trash bin looking for spoilers.
 

mirandashell

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It pisses me off that the working class poor are constantly portrayed as smack heads that neglect their children. Or thieves and scammers. Where's the working class poor that look after their kids? That go to their low-paid jobs every day. That do the best they can to live a decent life under immense pressure. Because that's the working class poor I know. And this:

this is what real life is like, especially for the poor and working class

pushed a big red button.

Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But don't tell me what my life is.
 

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katci13

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Most of the reviews I've read so far have been negative. I want to read it though because I love Rowling and she is fiercely talented. But I'm not in a hurry. Maybe someone will get me a copy for Christmas and I'll read it then.
 

KTC

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I don't know if I'm going to try to read it...I am intrigued, but I don't like her writing at all. I think she is a great storyteller...but just an okay writer. I only got through 1 and a half HP books. I watched and enjoyed all the movies, though. Maybe I'll wait to see the movie of Casual Vacancy. It'll be more her story and less her writing.
 

Persei

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interesting review. surprising to me, as I always felt that HP was condoning (and indeed, celebrating) the English class system and the myth of 'good breeding equalling good person'. (breeding, not parenting)

That's what I saw on HP's story arc as well... It's subtle, but it's definitely there, under the layers of "being muggleborn doesn't have to do with anything!!11".

Anyhow, I am not a fan of Rowling's writing itself -- I am not sure if it's the translation or something else. I definitely want to see how she turned herself around out of the HP dream land, but I am not in a hurry to get a copy either...
 

heyjude

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I think I'm one of the three or four people who's never read Harry Potter before. I'll download the sample of CV and see what I think. Seems like a lot of people either love it or hate it.
 

Six Alaric

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It pisses me off that the working class poor are constantly portrayed as smack heads that neglect their children. Or thieves and scammers. Where's the working class poor that look after their kids? That go to their low-paid jobs every day. That do the best they can to live a decent life under immense pressure. Because that's the working class poor I know.

I'm not fond of negative generalisations about the working class either. Not meaning anything anyone has said in this thread - the phrase just seems to be popping up frequently in reviews for this book and it does feel a bit insulting to read in the context of drug addiction and child neglect. Personally, I think a lot of people have a habit of saying working class when they actually mean underclass - which is what I'm guessing the poorest characters from TCV are: people on the bottom rung of society. I'm not sure if calling them working class is an attempt at being more politically correct about it or just an accidental lack of distinction between the two.

Anyway, the book sounds interesting. Managed to avoid most of the hype and I'm not a Potter fan in the slightest, but I like the sound of it. I'll be picking up a copy this week.

ETA: Got it earlier this evening. About 50 pages in, enjoying it. I get the complaint that none of the characters are very likeable. Can't say it's putting me off at all but I'd probably struggle to recommend it to other people for this reason. (Spoiler? As far as unpleasant characters go, Simon sticks out from the cast as quite a monster so far. Intrigued to see where the story goes for him and Andrew.) Most of the stuff (certain descriptions and language) pointed out in reviews as Rowling trying to make the work seem more adult... actually seems quite natural to me.
 
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aruna

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Well, I haven't read th ebook and won't so it might be unfair to judge -- BUT -- the premise alone tells me that this book is not for me (I loathe local political squabbles!), and the reviews confirming that it is unrelentingly bleak and with hateful characters -- well, it's not for me.

It seems from some of the reviews I've read that she seems to be griping mostly about the middle classes as an nasty, snobbish, petty lot, and THAT for me is another reason to doubt that's is a book for me -- because my whole family is firmly middle class, all my friends are middle class, and we are neither snobbish nor petty nor unpleasant nor pretentious nor hypocritical (yes we are flawed, but in other departments.). The very opposite is the case. Just about everyone in my circle is nice, caring, easy-going, helpful, creative, adventurous -- fine people. And just about everyone I can call a friend have always placed themselves unequivocally on the side of the underdog, sometimes at great peril to themselves -- including my own parents.
So no -- it's definitely not for me.

The very premise seems to be lacking in magic -- and I don't mean the wand-waving, Harry Potter kind of magic (which is not for me either) but the milk of human kindness sort of magic, for me an indispensible ingredient in any book I read.
 
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mirandashell

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Pretty much all of the characters are stereotypes of one sort of another. There's no humour in it, which would help lift the bleakness and for me, no reason to care about anyone in it. Just a whole town of unremitting meh.
 

tmesis

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I quite liked it. Mirandashell, I see what you mean about the prose sounding like YA. Apart from the swearing and adult themes, I thought the sentence structure and certain turns of phrase were quite similar to the last couple of Potter books. But I liked those too, so that's not a complaint, just an observation.

I thought the book took a long time to get going--at page 100 I was wondering when the plot would start--but on reflection, having reached the end, I think the pacing is fitting. I also agree with leahzero that there's an honesty about the characters. Even if they're not reflective of everyone, they felt real to me.

The ending was a bit melodramatic though, IMO.
 

mirandashell

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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that cos none of it rang true to me, really. And yeah, the ending is ridiculously melodramatic in my eyes.
 

aruna

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Reviews at this stage are very mixed. I'm slightly curious but not enough to actually read the book. The title is dull, the cover is dull, and the premise is dull ... I'm pretty sure even Potter fans can agree on that! The question was really whether or not she had the alchemy to turn that dullness into something that would grab you and never let you go, and that's where it gets subjective.

Seems it would have worked better if she had chosen a different author name for this one, to make the departure from Potterland clear. Not necessarily a pen name, but maybe Joanna instead of JK. The latter is really inextricably, eternally linked to HP.
 

BardSkye

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I quite enjoyed the Potterverse and was interested in what she might come up with next, but the premise, once revealed, didn't appeal to me at all. I'm unlikely to read it.

I've got fairly wide-ranging tastes so perhaps the next one will sound interesting.
 

Six Alaric

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I enjoyed it. Personally, I don't know if I missed the point as far as class goes or what - but this didn't feel like the dig at the middle class that reviews have made it out to be.

Nearly all of the characters were caricatures whether they were well-off or poor, and it seems like Rowling tried to make that as extreme as possible. The rich aren't just rich: they're greedy and smug; the poor aren't just poor: they're hostile and helpless - and all of them are so entrenched in their situations that they refuse to see things from another angle (with one or two exceptions). It actually felt more like an attack on negative attitudes, none of which rely on class: hypocrisy, ignorance, selfishness... that's what stood out and made the majority of the characters petty and often frustrating to read about.

Like I said, I enjoyed it - but I'm not surprised that the reviews are mixed. The synopsis, the cover and the name 'J.K. Rowling' all suggest the reader is in for something much less bleak than this book actually is.
 

lbender

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Nearly all of the characters were caricatures whether they were well-off or poor, and it seems like Rowling tried to make that as extreme as possible. The rich aren't just rich: they're greedy and smug; the poor aren't just poor: they're hostile and helpless - and all of them are so entrenched in their situations that they refuse to see things from another angle (with one or two exceptions). It actually felt more like an attack on negative attitudes, none of which rely on class: hypocrisy, ignorance, selfishness... that's what stood out and made the majority of the characters petty and often frustrating to read about.

Like I said, I enjoyed it - but I'm not surprised that the reviews are mixed. The synopsis, the cover and the name 'J.K. Rowling' all suggest the reader is in for something much less bleak than this book actually is.


This.

I've read about a third of it so far. There are no good or admirable people anywhere to be found, and I find it hard to believe that that situation actually exists.

I have no doubt that such horrible people do exist. However, I try to avoid them, and that still leaves a wide assortment of people from which to choose friends and acquaintances.

Among my friends, anyone who would treat a child the way these are treated would be outcasts. My daughter, 30 now, still remembers the one time she heard my wife curse - and it was because she was cut off while driving, certainly not at my daughter.

While I'm not British, nor have I ever lived there, I find it hard to believe that basic impulses among people there are that dramatically different from my area of the US.



This, though, was excellent. It's incredibly dark and unflinchingly honest. I don't think she's "trying too hard" at all--this is what real life is like, especially for the poor and working class. Her portraits of middle-class condescension and idiocy were right on the mark.

There is actually one character who's completely sympathetic--but yes, the majority of the characters are very flawed people who represent various shades of selfishness and selflessness, greed and kindness.

There were quite a few characters I loved to hate, and others I grudgingly found myself sympathizing with.

The most astounding thing Rowling pulled off in this novel is making you feel for characters despite the completely dickish things they do to each other.

I've seen this attitude before - that dark and gritty are synonomous with reality. Bullshit.

Dark and gritty do exist, but to imply that reality is all dark, gritty, selfish, greedy, and evil is just as ridiculous as thinking that reality is all sweetness and light.

People exist in all forms and all flavors. Nobody's perfect, of course, not even my wife, who comes closest, but lack of perfection does not equate to nasty and vicious.
 

aruna

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I've seen this attitude before - that dark and gritty are synonomous with reality. Bullshit.

Dark and gritty do exist, but to imply that reality is all dark, gritty, selfish, greedy, and evil is just as ridiculous as thinking that reality is all sweetness and light.

People exist in all forms and all flavors.

I agree, and this is what puts me off reading this book. I'd say I've lived and moved in some pretty gritty and dark circles-- worked in prison, and as a probation officer, and in a half-way house; researched Bombay's slummy red-light district. And the one thing that shines through, is that even people in the worst of "gritty" situations can be likeable, friendly, caring, generous.

I get a bit Daily-Mail-ish when it comes to benefits scroungers. The idea of teenage girls choosing motherhood as a career option and living on taxpayers money makes me see red, and don't start on binge drinking and chavs. But I know just such a person (benefits mother, I mean, not binge drinker), and I like her. She lived in a council estate, had seven children by four fathers by the time she was thirty; all the fathers were black, and she was white. I got involved with her when I became a foster mother for her elder daughter, and I had close contact with the family. OK, she lived on benefits and never worked and smoked grass and used f-words in front of the kids. But she was a good mother, her children adored her, her house, a tiny mid-terrace, was amazingly tidy, and she tried to educate herself by reading good books. Also, when I moved house she offered to help, brought around a firend ) another benefits mother) and one of her sons, and they spent two or three days helping me carry furniture downstairs and load it in the van, and cleaned the house for me as well, for free.

Her two youngest boys are extremely intelligent, straight A students at their comprehensive, and she was very excited when I thought they might be eligible for a scholarship at one of the good independent schools. (Unfortunately it didn't work out -- but if I were to ever get a 7-figure advance part of it would go to putting those two boys through a really good school. (OK derail over, sorry -- I got a bit carried away there! I love those kids.)

All this is to say that "reality" just isn't all gloom and doom, and that's what's so great about humans. They can find goodness and hope and strength even in the worst situations, and THAT'S what I want to read about. I like stories that show that sort of thing; that for me is honesty. I don't want to wade through the garbage heap of humanity and never see a spark of human kindness. That's not the book for me; I think it's one-sided and shallow.


Nobody's perfect, of course, not even my wife, who comes closest, but lack of perfection does not equate to nasty and vicious.
Awww! How cute! I bet she thinks you're perfect too!
 
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thebloodfiend

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Basically, Rowling pulled a GRRM -- everyone is scum. Yeah, I don't think I'll be reading this anytime soon. I was never a fan of her prose to begin with.