"Let's face it: pretty white girls sell."

[AutumnKQ]

If they want to imagine the world for themselves, they can write their own novel, can't they?

When you don't read about very many characters who look like you, sometimes it's nice when an author acknowledges when one of them does, even if it's not important to the plot.

I can see your point... I like when I get my hands on a book that features a strong female protag. But as a writer, I have a story to tell. I try to describe everything crucial to the plot and then let the reader built the world in her mind. That's because, as a reader, it's my personal preference that the author not use too much description- it slows down the book for me. I like to read and use my imagination... if I didn't want to use it so much, I'd just watch tv and movies (which I also enjoy, of course.)

 

[kuwisdelu]

That's because, as a reader, it's my personal preference that the author not use too much description- it slows down the book for me.

My personal preference is for less physical character description in general, too. But simply describing someone as, for example, "a pretty black girl", isn't really going overboard, IMO, and can mean a lot to some.

 

[thebloodfiend]

My personal preference is for less physical character description in general, too. But simply describing someone as, for example, "a pretty black girl", isn't really going overboard, IMO, and can mean a lot to some.

Very true.


Though even that will go over some peoples' heads. But what more can you do?

 

[AutumnKQ]

My personal preference is for less physical character description in general, too. But simply describing someone as, for example, "a pretty black girl", isn't really going overboard, IMO, and can mean a lot to some.

True.

 

[Dave.C.Robinson]

All I can say is that given the background the OP provided, putting the character in France makes a lot of sense.

 

[Max Vaehling]

Starship Troopers the MC was from Argentina. That's where Buenos Aires is right?

Right... Casper Van Dien sure nailed that. (And it was Buenos Aires in the movie, too.)

But that's the thing. If it isn't clear enough in the original novel, or important to the plot, people might drop it in the movie. Y'know, because The Audience Won't Go For It, or just because it never occurred to them while reading the book in the first place.

(It happens the other way 'round, too - Ford in the Hitch Hiker's Guide movie, Kurdy in the Jeremiah TV show... if it isn't important that they're white, producers do sometimes get away with changing their ethnicity. They do it for a much better reason, though. And on purpose.)

 

[Ronni]

OH GOSH NO RIHANNA'S ACTING IS SO CATASTROPHIC
Admittedly I've never actually seen her in anything apart from a cameo she has in Bring it on 3 where she plays herself but that alone was shocking.

Oh. Then you haven't seen Battleship obviously.

It doesn't get better.

 

[Ronni]

Everyone that I have let read what I have written so far loves it. However, their love is laced with worry. For instance:

"This could really be a bestseller if you changed Aubrey to white girl."

"Aubrey is 3/4 white and 1/4 black. She is practically white anyway. It's not like changing her race will alter the storyline. Just make her the product of an affair between a white commoner woman and a French plantation owner."

"Nobody wants to read about a mixed girl trying to help save the world. Just make her white. Let's face it: pretty white girls sell."

"I doubt there were lots of black people trotting around Paris back then. Let's try and be realistic. Make her white."

"No literary agent or publishing company will want this because Aubrey is black. It's jacked up, but it's true."

I'm sorry people said those things to you. I agree with the others who said to write the story YOU want to write.

I remember while I was growing, DESPERATELY looking for YA with a girl who looked like me. Or a girl who was like me--black but with light light light skin. I never found one. There are people out there who want to read these types of characters--but you will have to fight to get them out there.

Almost anytime I see YA with PoC protagonists, it's an "urban" book that's written in such a dumb downed way I want to throw the book across the room, or it's about living in the ghetto or teenage pregnancy or other stereotypical things. And there is a time and a place for those books for sure, but I loved Bleeding Violet because it wasn't about that.

It's so hard to find a balance because I see people asking for books with PoC but not to even talk about the being "of color" part. They want a book written like one with a white protag, but the main character just happens to be black or whatever...but God forbid anyone mentions that blackness. THAT is problematic also because I don't know about you, but there is not one day in my life that I am able to forget that I'm black. If I were to forget it, someone is all too happy to remind me of it. It's a part of me, so why wouldn't it be part of the character's? That doesn't mean the book has to be focused on her race and how it's this looming thing in her life, but it does need to be addressed--if that's the sort of story you're telling.

 

[Cranky1]

I reject color-blindness as something to aspire to because whiteness is already the default status. If you listen to the radio and hear a voice coming through, in most cases, your mind's creation will be that of a white individual. To be blind to color means that you wish to be blind to the unusual; instead, we should seek to fall within the usual.

To feature a black MC means that you have delineated from the usual. It's almost like you are being impolite to the reader by forcing them to deconstruct their default image of who they can root for.

In my first book, my MC is a Black woman who looks more White than she does Black. Growing up, I had a neighbor like that. She had fair skin, freckles, hazel eyes, and auburn hair. I remember asking my mother why that White lady was married to that Black man, and my mother explained to me that they were both Black.

I like challenging traditional images related to phenotype and aesthetics. It is fascinating to me because I wonder if those of us who don't fit into a traditional mold have to overcompensate through behavior and speech in order to prove that we do belong.

 

[Ronni]

I reject color-blindness as something to aspire to because whiteness is already the default status.

This times 1000000000000000.

Also, to embrace color blindness is to deny a very real aspect of that person. I was at a party a few years ago, and a white guy was talking to an Asian guy. I'm not sure how the subject of race came up, but the white guy said to the Asian guy "...but you, I don't even see you as Asian. I see you as one of us."

I cringed so much when he said that. Because on the surface, it sounds so...harmless, but deep down, it's not.

When I was in high school, I used to go around saying, "my race is human!" And in an ideal world, that's a beautiful way to think. But this world is not ideal. It's still riddled with racism and privilege and prejudice, so saying I'm "human" is not enough and probably won't for several more generations.

In my first book, my MC is a Black woman who looks more White than she does Black. Growing up, I had a neighbor like that. She had fair skin, freckles, hazel eyes, and auburn hair.

Ahh, I'd have LOVED something like that to read. I still would. Your former neighbor's traits are similar to my own. It's so rare that I find someone who looks like me in a book, on TV, in a movie, or in any sort of medium.

We desperately need more diverse representation in our media. More POSITIVE representation... despite the push back from the masses.

 

[Cranky1]

This times 1000000000000000.

Also, to embrace color blindness is to deny a very real aspect of that person. I was at a party a few years ago, and a white guy was talking to an Asian guy. I'm not sure how the subject of race came up, but the white guy said to the Asian guy "...but you, I don't even see you as Asian. I see you as one of us."

I cringed so much when he said that. Because on the surface, it sounds so...harmless, but deep down, it's not.

Exactly! It's like when a white person tells a Black person that they are "well-spoken". What's not being is said is that they have an expectation for normal Black speech or behavior, but your ability to convey a message means that you no longer fit into the normal.

Ahh, I'd have LOVED something like that to read. I still would. Your former neighbor's traits are similar to my own. It's so rare that I find someone who looks like me in a book, on TV, in a movie, or in any sort of medium.

We desperately need more diverse representation in our media. More POSITIVE representation... despite the push back from the masses.

I'll keep you posted!

 

[Kim Fierce]

Exactly! It's like when a white person tells a Black person that they are "well-spoken". What's not being is said is that they have an expectation for normal Black speech or behavior, but your ability to convey a message means that you no longer fit into the normal.

Yeah I used to know someone who told me he had a white acquaintance (friend?) who said to him, "You're not even black to me, man."

I think it's an example of the brainwashing that whites go through without even realizing it. I'm still trying to understand it myself. Because for some reason, as a white person who grew up in a mostly white town hearing some appalling things, I just never internalized the prejudice and racism. Don't ask me how or why because even some of the most well-intentioned people I know sometimes seem surprised to see things that don't fit into the stereotypes they grew up hearing about.

I have heard people say, "We don't see color." They think that is a good thing, and I just don't. Even with those best intentions I think it is still somehow ingrained into their brains that non-white equals bad, so we just have to pretend everyone is the same. And really it should be, all races and cultures can be "seen" and our differences celebrated, and sometimes we have more in common than we think and it just gets completely overlooked.

 

[Dave.C.Robinson]

Yeah I used to know someone who told me he had a white acquaintance (friend?) who said to him, "You're not even black to me, man."

I think it's an example of the brainwashing that whites go through without even realizing it. I'm still trying to understand it myself. Because for some reason, as a white person who grew up in a mostly white town hearing some appalling things, I just never internalized the prejudice and racism. Don't ask me how or why because even some of the most well-intentioned people I know sometimes seem surprised to see things that don't fit into the stereotypes they grew up hearing about.

I have heard people say, "We don't see color." They think that is a good thing, and I just don't. Even with those best intentions I think it is still somehow ingrained into their brains that non-white equals bad, so we just have to pretend everyone is the same. And really it should be, all races and cultures can be "seen" and our differences celebrated, and sometimes we have more in common than we think and it just gets completely overlooked.

This is where I think the whole "Great American Melting-Pot" idea is so harmful, because it does give the impression that other cultures are just so much dross to be melted away. In Canada, the equivalent is the "Canadian Mosaic," with the idea that the country should be made up of all cultures and that their individuality and differences should be celebrated, and not melted away.

I'm not trying to argue that Canada somehow gets everything right, it has its own problems, but I do think that the mosaic idea has a lot of merit if only because it does recognize and celebrate difference.

 

[kuwisdelu]

In Canada, the equivalent is the "Canadian Mosaic," with the idea that the country should be made up of all cultures and that their individuality and differences should be celebrated, and not melted away.

I'm not trying to argue that Canada somehow gets everything right, it has its own problems, but I do think that the mosaic idea has a lot of merit if only because it does recognize and celebrate difference.

I like that.

 

[Dave.C.Robinson]

Right... Casper Van Dien sure nailed that. (And it was Buenos Aires in the movie, too.)

But that's the thing. If it isn't clear enough in the original novel, or important to the plot, people might drop it in the movie. Y'know, because The Audience Won't Go For It, or just because it never occurred to them while reading the book in the first place.

(It happens the other way 'round, too - Ford in the Hitch Hiker's Guide movie, Kurdy in the Jeremiah TV show... if it isn't important that they're white, producers do sometimes get away with changing their ethnicity. They do it for a much better reason, though. And on purpose.)

Actually, not only was Johnny Rico from Argentina, he was Filipino. There's a reference in the novel that he spoke Tagalog at home.

 

[Max Vaehling]

I think it's an example of the brainwashing that whites go through without even realizing it. I'm still trying to understand it myself. Because for some reason, as a white person who grew up in a mostly white town hearing some appalling things, I just never internalized the prejudice and racism.

Me neither. Mostly because it usually came from people whose judgment I wouldn't trust anyway. Grown-ups and all.

But I did internalize the white default, mostly because the area I grew up in was so white that I had to learn about diversity from the TV and well-meaning substitute teachers.

 

[pagesinstages]

Honestly, I think the mixed-race character you have works perfectly for the story you want to tell. Her French/Creole ancestry is reason enough for her to be in Paris. Just out of curiosity, does the New Orleans origin fit in with the magical aspects? Nola does have such a great tradition of mysticalness.

Your book sounds great. In bookstores I pass up almost everything with a pretty white face because that's not the kind of thing that grabs me. (I prefer a more conceptual cover, along the lines of "Graceling" or "Divergent.") If I was going to pick up a photo-face covered book, it would be for a POC character.

 

[Liralen]

Yeah I used to know someone who told me he had a white acquaintance (friend?) who said to him, "You're not even black to me, man."

I think it's an example of the brainwashing that whites go through without even realizing it. I'm still trying to understand it myself. Because for some reason, as a white person who grew up in a mostly white town hearing some appalling things, I just never internalized the prejudice and racism. Don't ask me how or why because even some of the most well-intentioned people I know sometimes seem surprised to see things that don't fit into the stereotypes they grew up hearing about.

I have heard people say, "We don't see color." They think that is a good thing, and I just don't. Even with those best intentions I think it is still somehow ingrained into their brains that non-white equals bad, so we just have to pretend everyone is the same. And really it should be, all races and cultures can be "seen" and our differences celebrated, and sometimes we have more in common than we think and it just gets completely overlooked.

I can see your point, but I've found that often what's meant is that they see a person, not a race or ethnic background.

Personally, I love ethnic backgrounds and hearing people tell me about theirs; it's like a wonderfully fascinating story, but you have to be so careful about asking or even bringing up the subject. Most Caucasians don't even consider that we have ethnic backgrounds . . . and, in my experience, it's pretty rare to meet someone of a non-Caucasian background who considers it either. And yet, among ourselves, we Caucasians can harbor strong animosity toward each other based on ethnicity!

And really, we aren't even properly "Caucasian," at least most of us aren't.

Makes life a lot easier if you just consider the person.

 

[Rachel Udin]

I can see your point, but I've found that often what's meant is that they see a person, not a race or ethnic background.

Personally, I love ethnic backgrounds and hearing people tell me about theirs; it's like a wonderfully fascinating story, but you have to be so careful about asking or even bringing up the subject. Most Caucasians don't even consider that we have ethnic backgrounds . . . and, in my experience, it's pretty rare to meet someone of a non-Caucasian background who considers it either. And yet, among ourselves, we Caucasians can harbor strong animosity toward each other based on ethnicity!

And really, we aren't even properly "Caucasian," at least most of us aren't.

Makes life a lot easier if you just consider the person.

May be regional then. I've heard Russians talk about being Russian. Italians talk about Italian (Minority within the white power group, granted and not caucasian). Even Jews talking about being Jewish (It's kinda an ethnic background for a long reason that people outside of it don't quite get.) And Brits talk about being British... But that may be because I'm from the NE. I hear it a lot less in the SW US.

I think what is true is that white is kinda considered the "default" and thus automatically "human" (in cultural terms). What is human is determined by culture.

I've found that most dominant power classes have that luxury of ignoring the minority power group's culture when the reverse isn't true. Mostly the minority power group is often forced to code switch in order to get ahead. This may contribute the the idea of "don't have a race" idea. In another words, as a dominant power group, somewhere along the line it's easier to point out the other, than it is to admit one shares in it. (I'm not sure the last bit makes sense. So "normal" v. "Name for the other".)

This also shows up in standards of beauty as well.

 

[Liralen]

Down here (southeastern U.S.) I've run into a lot of the attitude that if you're of The Non-Colorful Race and celebrate your own ethnic roots it somehow translates into "you're a bigot, a racist." I've yet to figure out that line of logic. One doesn't negate the other, and when I go back and look, I see many parallels and commonalities between my (mainly Celt) roots, African roots and AmerIndian roots in particular.

The more I dig and read and listen and compare, the more I'm convinced that even though there are some positively glorious and fascinating differences, there may be, farther back, even deeper and more intriguing kindred threads.

So why can't we be different -- ALL of us -- and indulge our curiosities and questions and talk to each other about those differences without it turning into some sort of one-up, "you're a racist, no YOU'RE the racist" stupidity?

 

[Rachel Udin]

Down here (southeastern U.S.) I've run into a lot of the attitude that if you're of The Non-Colorful Race and celebrate your own ethnic roots it somehow translates into "you're a bigot, a racist." I've yet to figure out that line of logic. One doesn't negate the other, and when I go back and look, I see many parallels and commonalities between my (mainly Celt) roots, African roots and AmerIndian roots in particular.

The more I dig and read and listen and compare, the more I'm convinced that even though there are some positively glorious and fascinating differences, there may be, farther back, even deeper and more intriguing kindred threads.

So why can't we be different -- ALL of us -- and indulge our curiosities and questions and talk to each other about those differences without it turning into some sort of one-up, "you're a racist, no YOU'RE the racist" stupidity?

I think it's veering off topic because it's getting away from beauty.

There is a spectrum of human behavior for each individual.

The thing that outgroups v. ingroups don't get is that people aren't made up of 100% differences and 100% sameness. With a long, long history of exoticism and making a philia out of whatever, it causes issues where you aren't 100% sure if the person likes you for who you are versus what ideal they think you are based on some stereotype they have of your group being X. (Is that too academic?)

On the other extreme, you get "there are no differences" which is equally insulting because then you can't address baseline problems of what was already created.

So you need a basic tenant of, "Differences are beautiful and how people choose to define it for themselves is equally beautiful." Unfortunately this does not usually fly with the general public who want to categorize everyone into black and white (the categorization extremes) into one or the other rather than a continuous gray of self definition versus the larger society. And by extension, good and evil. (Though this extreme binary seems to be somewhat the result of the Judeo Christian system, since this delineation isn't as strict in other cultures.)

I think the basic take away is that humans want to make life simpler by grouping/categorization (thus why industrialization tends to create more bureaucracy...) thus feeling like they belong, but also be recognized for their individual selves. What stereotyping and prejudice does is pretty much rob that from people so they are screwed either way. And the grouping to that extreme takes away a lot of the time and effort one could spend getting to know someone for their individual selves so one doesn't have to worry about it.

I hope that makes sense... (I get I'm combining Sociology, psychology and anthropology to make that hypothesis.)

But back to topic, you can pretty much apply the former to why beauty shaped up the way it did. Add some male pressure in it too.

 

[LocalWriter]

Oh dear, please don't change her race.

And with regard to marketability, remember that there are people out there starved for POC protagonists. If you have a white girl as your MC, you'll be competing with every other white-girl-heroine YA fantasy. But if you have a POC MC, you have a better chance of building word-of-mouth among people who are specifically looking for POC protagonists.

At least that's my prediction. Speaking personally, I am WAY more likely to pick up a book with a POC protagonist, because I just never see enough of them!

very good points!

 

[aruna]

Right now, immediately after the "we need diverse books" campaign that went viral, might be an ideal time to submit this book -- agents and publishers are waking out of their slumber! Good luck!

 

[M.N Thorne]

OP, I hope you stay true to your character. Her heritage sounds wonderful. Actually, I have written a very popular Creole character from the Caribbean. I would have to agree there is need for more characters of African descent in the literary world. Mixed race people are often left out as well.

 

[Quotidianlight]

I agree with many of the above posters. Both the story and the ancestry of your characters sound wonderful and interesting. My bio family is from New Orleans and growing up, I didn't look like other black people where I lived. AFAIK, I wasn't mixed since I had pictures of my parents and they looked black. I never felt at home, until I went to New Orleans and saw an entire town of people that look like me. Many people don't know the history of plaçage or blacks in France. It WAS common especially as a way to educate young mixed free offspring of white placées. Your book, while being interesting will educate. I wish you well.

BTW: next time someone gives you a hard time about your character being "almost white anyway" please remind them The feast of all saints and The Island Beneath The Sea.