Sacrifice are annoying! Or is that just me?

[ElectricLights]

Ok, I've been reading a lot this summer and there always one reoccurring theme that's really starting to bug me: character having to sacrifice something important to be happy. I need to rephrase, it's pointless sacrifice that annoys me. I just wanted to know if I'm alone in my thinking because there are other ways to go about doing things... sometimes. Alright, thanks

 

[quicklime]

let's see.....anytime I want something, SOME other things gets sacrificed, so maybe I don't get exactly what you mean--if I want to read more, i spend less time sleeping, or with the kids. If I want to learn to make beer, I spend time and money. Nothing is free.

So, what do you mean by sacrifice, and particularly "pointless sacrifice"? I assume you're talking of a more significant sort of sacrifice, but not sure what you've seen or ARE referring to, without an example to go on....

 

[buz]

I'm not quite sure what you mean, either. If the sacrifice makes the person happy, why is it pointless?

Perhaps an example?

 

[Susan Coffin]

Electric,

Are you asking why the main character has to suffer to get what he wants?

If so--a story where the character gets what he wants without working for it, or it's all flowering and sweet with only good things, then the reader will be bored to tears. In fact, the agent or publisher you submit to you will so bored that they'll give it a rejection slip.

The best stories are the ones where something is sacrificed, even when it doesn't always lead to happiness.

 

[ElectricLights]

I mean the kind of sacrifice that has a significant affect on a character's life. This was kind of spurred by the last few series that I've read. Specifically, the forth book in the Fallen series by Lauren Kate, Rapture. (SPOILER ALERT) By the end, the MC and her love interest, both fallen angels, give up their wings to become mortals. They do so to finally be left alone and not be expected to join the sides of God or Lucifer. Really, my problem with it is why people have to antagonize one another. Why we can't just all go about or business, whether it be maintaining celestial balance or everyday school life. That's what it is. And I think I just got really off-topic from literary standpoint.

 

[fireluxlou]

Naw I love it. I love when characters sacrifice things. I like to feel that maybe they have to lose something to gain something new. A new era. A new event, a new person etc. You get nothing without sacrificing something.

The only character who I can think of, who spent 3 books moaning about how she'd have to sacrifice certain things to be with the one she loved, never actually did in the end. Guess the book. Twilight.

 

[Bubastes]

Why we can't just all go about or business, whether it be maintaining celestial balance or everyday school life.

Because that would make a really boring story.

Personally, I love it when a character has to sacrifice something to get something else. That tension reveals what the character truly values.

 

[ElectricLights]

Electric,

Are you asking why the main character has to suffer to get what he wants?

If so--a story where the character gets what he wants without working for it, or it's all flowering and sweet with only good things, then the reader will be bored to tears. In fact, the agent or publisher you submit to you will so bored that they'll give it a rejection slip.

The best stories are the ones where something is sacrificed, even when it doesn't always lead to happiness.

I'm aware of its purpose in a book. I just had my little soul searchy moment. I'm sixteen, you'll have to excuse the 'why is the world the way it is' mentality. But thanks for answering anyway. I think I'd have to disagree with your last statement though. I like a book were I can smile and know everything's ok, not be bawling my eyes out. But that's more a matter of personal preference and opinion.

 

[quicklime]

I mean the kind of sacrifice that has a significant affect on a character's life. This was kind of spurred by the last few series that I've read. Specifically, the forth book in the Fallen series by Lauren Kate, Rapture. By the end, the MC and her love interest, both fallen angels, give up their wings to become mortals. They do so to finally be left alone and not be expected to join the sides of God or Lucifer. Really, my problem with it is why people have to antagonize one another. Why we can't just all go about or business, whether it be maintaining celestial balance or everyday school life. That's what it is. And I think I just got really off-topic from literary standpoint.

looking at the underlined, if it was as simple as them saying "meh, I'm out" that'd be a pretty boring-assed book, no?

books are usually written around conflict, conflict usually involves sacrifice.

as for the bold, there is a fairly old, often-rehashed argument here about writing the world one sees, or the world one wishes for. I take it this is really about you wanting to see something better? No shame in that, but many people write to reflect the world around them, where hard choices and horrible consequences really are part of everyday life. As an example, I just saw "Buried". No real sacrifice, but in the end the guy (spoiler) dies as his coffin fills. And in "An Occurrance at Owl Creek Bridge" fashion (google that and have a read; consider it homework), it comes as part of a horrifically cruel twist.

Bad stuff happens. And it is usually far more interesting than good stuff. Hence the stories of "A Simple Plan," "No Country for Old Men," and "The Monkey's Paw" all being about consequence, rather than a happy ending 20% of the way into the book. And hence your angels giving up their wings, The guy at the end of A Tale of Two Cities marching to his death, etc....

 

[sunandshadow]

I personally dislike sacrifice as a theme. Some people like that theme a lot. It's certainly possible to avoid it in one's own writing, but I don't know any trick for avoiding it in your reading unless you were to change genres to one that doesn't commonly use sacrifice.

 

[buz]

Okay, so, the question you're asking is either about writing (which people have answered and consists of "because no sacrifice/conflict is boring") or about life/philosophy/cosmic balance and stuff.

If it's about the latter...

It's also because it's boring. Well, perhaps boring is not the right word. Thing is, if you live a non-conflicted complacent sort of life in which you get whatever you want without sacrifice, life becomes more meaningless and shallow, and you start to feel kind of empty and shallow and meaningless yourself. People need some conflict or chaos, a bit of stress or adrenaline, things to overcome. Without a profound loss or suffering, there is no profound triumph or joy. As Satan says in his musical number in South Park: The Movie, "Without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometiiiimmes" (crescendo + chorus)

So I think. I could be wrong.

 

[lorna_w]

in life and fiction, difficult decisions/what we do with impossible choices both reveal character and form character.

Fiction is very much about choosing between two important things. In a fiction that has as its choice: Should Mary Sue choose between saving the drowning kitten and having a root beer? the choice is clear--so there is no tension and no need to read the story and if you put that in a query letter, an agent would growl at you for wasting her time. Both choices have to be important to her. Save the kitten or her worst enemy from drowning? That's a much more interesting choice.

What's LOTR if Frodo gets to go back to the Shire and sing happy little hobbit songs and drink beer and forget his adventures? I want him to be in terror, pain, haunted by the ring and his injuries. If he weren't, the author would be saying to me, "oh, btw, I was just kidding--he didn't risk a thing and none of it was that important."

 

[fireluxlou]

Am I the only one getting a 'why can't we all just get along?' a Peace Love and Unity vibe from this thread?

 

[Torgo]

Have a read of this, on story structure, why sacrifice is a common theme, and how to make it work: http://channel101.wikia.com/wiki/Story_Structure_104:_The_Juicy_Details

 

[John342]

Ok, I've been reading a lot this summer and there always one reoccurring theme that's really starting to bug me: character having to sacrifice something important to be happy. I need to rephrase, it's pointless sacrifice that annoys me. I just wanted to know if I'm alone in my thinking because there are other ways to go about doing things... sometimes. Alright, thanks

Electric,

As a reader I totally agree with you. I have read novels and said to myself, why would you do X? No one would do this... yada yada yada.

But as an author, all that meant was that the writer missed the boat in contriving the compelling reason why. If you can put yourself in the character's spot and empathise with him, they you have a really good moment.I have a MS out being read where the male lead sacrifices his life for the woman he loves and the readers (my betas) were all happy with it, (don't worry, its a romance, it turns out ok.)

It sounds to me like you are learning, asking the "why is the sky blue" questions. That's fine. When you are ready, write what you want. Personally, I don't like it when sacrifice is horribly dark and ugly, and yet that may reflect real life more accurately... go figure.

 

[Stlight]

Electric, you might try genre books, romance and mystery. ) I don't know about the others, except the SF/F I've read have been a bit depressing. That may just be chance. In genre you sort of know the type of the sacrifices to expect.

I give up on books where the author spends too much time coming up with one dreadful thing after another that happens to the MC. It makes me think/feel that instead of a plot, the author just strung together bad events.

 

[Buffysquirrel]

I felt a bit like this at the end of Lathe of Heaven. I couldn't see why the character made the sacrifice or why the sacrifice was necessary.

It soured the book for me and I don't really want to read it again. Other sacrifices, though--like Sidney Carton's--make perfect, if horrible, sense.

 

[QuantumIguana]

You can't always get what you want. Things that are easy aren't interesting to read about. To go through one door, you often have to close the door on something else.

 

[Pinkclaw]

I can understand, is okay that with a "perfect" life we wouldn't have a story and would be boring etc. But a ridiculous sacrifice make me roll my eyes, sometimes it just don't make sense or people are being unnecessary dramatic. Life is already "dramatic" without forcing it, bad things happen. So when a sacrifice that was unnecessary happen just to make a martyr or something similar it annoy me.

 

[Allen R. Brady]

To go through one door, you often have to close the door on something else.

This is not technically true. However, if you leave all the doors open, your dad will yell at you when the electric bill comes.

 

[Susan Coffin]

I'm aware of its purpose in a book. I just had my little soul searchy moment. I'm sixteen, you'll have to excuse the 'why is the world the way it is' mentality. But thanks for answering anyway. I think I'd have to disagree with your last statement though. I like a book were I can smile and know everything's ok, not be bawling my eyes out. But that's more a matter of personal preference and opinion.

I remember sixteen.....

Even thought it was long, long ago.

It was a wonderful question.

 

[LJD]

I don't know if I come across sacrifice a lot in the novels I read. Not what I think of as sacrifice.
But trade-offs, yeah.

 

[ElectricLights]

I just don't like when I spend time reading and getting attached to characters only to have them give up something that's shaped them or is embedded in their being. Such as angelic status in the book I mentioned earlier. I loved the book but losing their wings and memories of several millenia is a big deal and it doesn't leave a character the same. It feels like backtracking to me because I have to get used to this new character set before me and the old one I loved is just gone. Poof.

 

[muravyets]

Sacrifice is part of making choices, and making choices drives drama, and drama is the foundation of story. So I guess we should get used to characters making sacrifices.

That said, pointless sacrifice or cliched sacrifice are evidence of poor writing, in my opinion, and we should not try to get used to that.

I was just recently rewatching the movie of "Peyton Place," and it's actually a pretty hard drama, in its stilted 1950s soap opera way. But still I got up and walked out of the tv room to go do my own writing when it got up to the point where a character who had just suffered a reputation-destroying personal trauma was gearing up -- you could see it in the actress's body language, and anyway I'd seen it before, and scenes just like it countless times -- to nobly sacrificing her only chance for happiness with her one true love, the guy who could have taken her away from all the Peyton Place bullshit, who could have healed her wounds, blah, blah, blah, but she wouldn't do that to him because now she was damaged goods who could only drag him down with her, blah. I was just, like, ugh, gods, give me a break. "Why are there no crusty old women in Peyton Place?" I asked my mom. "You know, women who have had 13 kids and outlived 4 husbands, who can tell these idiot girls that, no, seriously, honey, he won't be able to tell. Just marry him and move to a city. Why are there are no old women in this suburb? Do they eat them when they get chewy enough?" And then I walked out, remembering why I never liked that story.

 

[L.C. Blackwell]

When I was sixteen.... My writing was very much a shaping of the world the way I wanted it to be. Nobody ever suffered for more than two pages, and everybody but the villain got a happy ending. (I always killed the villain. Always.) You know, that's not a bad thing. It's a place in your writing that's worth enjoying for what it is.

Quite a number of years later, my characters go through a lot. They endure and suffer and grow, but always for a reason. They do it because they need to. And if they lose some things, they gain more. Their lives aren't perfect fairy tales, but the balance ends in their favor. So I guess you could say I still write happy endings for the most part. (And I have been known--still--to off the occasional villain. Somehow that's so darn satisfying.)

The thing with obstacles, sacrifice and suffering in a novel is that they cannot be random. Sacrifice, if used, needs to be an important part of the character's inner journey, not just another rock hurled his way. Of course, there are many ways to reveal character, but suffering is the one that tends to show what we really are made of--everything comes out in the wash, so to speak.

I think in the example you give, the problem is that the author essentially "erased" two characters. Maybe they'll come back to being part of themselves, maybe not. But that's some heavy-duty restructuring, and not every reader is going to be happy with it.

And if you feel it was pointless, that's another aggravation. I got peevish with a book not long ago because the author made the hero lose his arm and hand right at the end of the novel, and there was no logical reason for it, other than dragging the end out by a few more pages, so that the heroine had to convince him he was still worthy of her. It didn't do a darned thing for his character arc, inner journey, what-have-you. It didn't do much for the relationship. It was just drama, and it didn't need to be there.

So yeah. Good question.