The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[tab]

P.A. now plans to offer two options to their authors.

1. Chose the edit opition-which will extend the waiting time by four month to get the book to you.

This may mean that the quality of edits will improve.

 

[kmm8n]

editing

Just a quick question from a newbie...is it standard publishing practice to hire college students to edit manuscripts?

I teach college students and I am uneasy with the idea that someone with a lot less experience than me would edit my work.

 

[James D. Macdonald]

Just a quick question from a newbie...is it standard publishing practice to hire college students to edit manuscripts?

No. It isn't. Though you will see college students as first readers.

A more usual path would be for a person to begin as an editorial assistant (learning the business, making photocopies, making the coffee, sorting and reading slush), then assistant editor, then editor, then senior editor with his/her own assistant editors.

The way I see it, most of PA's "editors" are recent college graduates, almost all of them young women with degrees in the liberal arts (not necessarily English) from local colleges. They seem to be in their first jobs, so they wouldn't even necessarily know what a normal business of any kind looks like.

 

[ResearchGuy]

Laugh or cry

Oh, my ... http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11803.htm

"[snip] I made following suggestion to PublishAmerica... [ellipsis in original] That PA places (1 to 2) copies of our books in 12 bookstores across the country. 4 of those books would be placed in your home states B&N bookstores, the other 8 would be placed in different states (as chosen by PublishAmerica) from coast to coast. We as authors would be responsible to purchase our own books back that did not sell after 1 year. [snip]"

I do not know whether to laugh or cry over that thread.

--Ken

 

[Patricia]

This may mean that the quality of edits will improve.

I think I understand what you mean, but even if that happens, (which I doubt), what about all those "un-edited" copies going to print? It's chilling to think about it. Poorly written and un-edited copies of PA books going to print was instrumental in starting the fight against them. If they won't change a few simple things that would stop that fight or make our books sell better; why would they want to better the edit team they have? I hope for those already signed and "happy" that it will happen.

There was some chatter on the boards about many people hiring professional editors before submission. Good grief, PA author, if you are reading this, submit that edited copy to "real publishers!"

I know of one PA author who had her work edited by another author who was supposed to be an ace at grammar, and it was terrible what happened to that ms. We can't always take a persons word, we must know they have credentials for editing.

 

[Ken Schneider]

I can only speak of my book. It is very well edited. No, not by P.A.. I wouldn't submit work without it being the best it can be. I can also only assume that a lot of rejections are because of poorly edited material.

To say that P.A. books are of inferior quality because they are not edited is not true in all cases. If they are inferior because of paper, card stock, cover design or print quality, then I see that point. The author can and should edit their own work. If they don't have the capability then they should find help. Send any poorly edited work out for acceptance and fill your rejection folder with -no thank you- replies.

The work must have a professional quality about it. It shows a sense of knowledge of the craft.

When received by a actual traditional publisher, they may find some items they want to correct-change- or have re-written.

I feel that before any material is submitted it should have already had at least one re-write, several ideal readings, and several "once overs" in addition to a professional edit.

 

[Trapped in amber]

Changling, I agree a writer should polish their manuscript to the best of their ability before submitting it. But the best writer in the world still needs a professional, objective eye to make the book the best it can be. That's why commercial publishing houses have editors. Publish America prints books that needed that professional editing, books that a commercial publisher may well have accepted.

 

[Kate StAmour]

Just a quick question from a newbie...is it standard publishing practice to hire college students to edit manuscripts?

I teach college students and I am uneasy with the idea that someone with a lot less experience than me would edit my work.

Unless it is a beer ad, I don't think I would advocate the practice of hiring college students to edit. Besides, has anyone seen some of the garbage kids are passing off as research papers these days? EEK!

Kate

 

[tab]

I think I understand what you mean, but even if that happens, (which I doubt), what about all those "un-edited" copies going to print? It's chilling to think about it. Poorly written and un-edited copies of PA books going to print was instrumental in starting the fight against them. If they won't change a few simple things that would stop that fight or make our books sell better; why would they want to better the edit team they have? I hope for those already signed and "happy" that it will happen.

There was some chatter on the boards about many people hiring professional editors before submission. Good grief, PA author, if you are reading this, submit that edited copy to "real publishers!"

I know of one PA author who had her work edited by another author who was supposed to be an ace at grammar, and it was terrible what happened to that ms. We can't always take a persons word, we must know they have credentials for editing.

I was being slightly facetious and slightly hopeful with my statement. I do know of one author who sent her book to a "book doctor" before it was published by a major house. I've told this story before on this thread, so I'm not going to repeat it. I tend to believe that this new editing option will not result in better edited books for most people. Its just another slick ploy to reduce costs and, possibly, deflect the blame about the quality of books onto the writer.

 

[Ken Schneider]

I don't think I would advocate the practice of hiring college students to edit. Besides, has anyone seen some of the garbage kids are passing off as research papers these days? EEK!

Kate

A tend to agree with a few exceptions. If you know the students abilities, then you may have some faith.

My son is a graduate student at a fine journalism school. He has done internships as a copy editior and content editor with some big daily papers.
Now, with that said- As he stated himself. "It is different than novel editing, but some aspects are the same." Can he be considered a professional novel editor? Hardly. Though he is knowledgeable in the aspects of the english language.

Pro editors for novels are pros at what they do.
I also agree that traditional publishers do have staff editors, but making them work overtime is not in the budget.

 

[Richard]

Its just another slick ploy to reduce costs and, possibly, deflect the blame about the quality of books onto the writer.

'Possibly'? You can almost hear them saying "Well, if you the author doesn't have the confidence in your book's success to support such a critical part of the process...", or words to that effect, with a few more insults thrown in for free.

 

[Christine N.]

I foresee a whole list of links on the PA website entitled "professional editing services". PA can sell ad space to book doctors and/or get kickbacks from every book that they refer.


Yeah, they'll get ya comin and going.

 

[Ken Schneider]

The no editing ploy only re-inforces the fact that P.A. has no interest in the book reaching the public market. It would be counter productive to print a book which was poorly edited. The buying market would be quick to dash it down with bad reviews. The sales wouldn't be there.
Okay, where will we sell such a book? Oh, I see.


An enthusiastic one whose family is behind the efforts of their loved one.

Now you know why they don't put them in bookstores.

A thin veil of smoke to see through if one will open their eyes.

 

[Sassenach]

Judging from the posts on PA boards and the author sites I've followed links to, the average PA author would benefit from any sort of editing. A quick tutorial in apostrophes would be a good beginning.

 

[Jaws]

To quote Jaws, "It depends." But they probably won't IMO, and I'm not a lawyer.

See my previous explanation on timing, which assumes that rights actually will be returned in the bankruptcy system. They may not be, if bankruptcy is declared; if someone buys PA's assets, or part of their assets, then those rights will be some of the assets for sale.

 

[James D. Macdonald]

...if someone buys PA's assets, or part of their assets, then those rights will be some of the assets for sale.

What that would mean to me is that it would behoove folks who want their rights back to get 'em now, rather than try to run out the clock.

 

[Patricia]

Not all good writers have excellent grammar skills; and not all good grammar experts are good writers. That's why it's important that they submit to reputable publishers who have trained eyes on staff that can recognize the good before tossing to slush pile. I have to admit, I was depending on PA "editors" to catch my flaws! Instead, I ended up with more! Oh, I get so angry when I think of the rot! At the same time, I am heartbroken for those who are still trapped in denial. Some of you may laugh at the naivete on the boards, but believe you me, behind the scenes there are some deeply humiliated and hurt people. They have put up with the "inside bashing" from the cheerleaders. Some of which are on these very boards now and knows how it feels to be on both sides of the fence.

 

[NancyMehl]

Self-Publishing...

Since I make it a point to review self-published and small print titles, I see the best and the worst. I don't review the worst of self-pubbed books - I refuse to review them. I'm not the type to hurt a writer's feelings. I have been known to suggest privately that a writer learn a few more things about writing before releasing their next work. I've gotten some interesting reactions.

One guy got mad. His book was excellent - but he had one major "voice" problem. (Where the author suddenly shows up to tell the reader what will happen to the character in the upcoming months! Quite jarring!) But this was the only negative response I've received.

Another man had his book edited had resubmitted it! LOL! (I reviewed it!)

Almost every other writer really appreciated the help.

Then...there are the shining jewels. The books you long for. Waking Walt by Larry Pontius was such a book. Risen by Jan Strnad (was picked up by Kensington). (I'm not mentioning any PA books because they weren't "supposed" to be self-pubbed! LOL!)

I just read another one. "The Middle of Somewhere" by James D. Wright is an incredible collection of short stories. His writing reminds me of Don Coldsmith - a well-known western author who lives in Kansas. James published with iUniverse. I asked him why. He only tried one publisher, and they liked his writing - but they weren't publishing short story collections. Then he went to iUniverse.

I am sending his book to Don Coldsmith. He knows who I am because I've reviewed an anthology he was involved in with Forge.

You know, it's wonderful to find a writer like this - and sad. I wish he would have kept at it. But, maybe I can help. Hope so.

I'm on my way back to my heating pad. Back hurts. Ow.

Nancy

 

[Ed Williams]

This thread pretty much says it all...

...re why authors don't need to handle their own marketing:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11803.htm.

I don't fault these PA authors at all, they want to get their books out there and be read, they just don't yet realize that their publisher doesn't share the same interest. After these authors made their first purchases of their own books, PA's interest went on to the next group of authors in line to be "harvested." And that's what PA does, you know, they harvest your book, harvest your money, and then, worst of all, you realized that they've harvested the dreams you had for your book.

On another front, I've had a couple of people ask if I really did get private correspondence from ZaZ? I know it's unbelievable, it's like getting privately messaged by Donald Trump or something. It's the coolest to know that I'm tight with ZaZ, the man, the legend. In fact, he and I are in negotiations right now for me to write his biography, tentatively entitled: "Give Me A Hot, Resonatin' Woman!"

 

[Richard]

Can I just say at this point that I really, really wish PA's message board didn't have pictures of its authors on there every time you read them. Not that they're unattractive or anything like that, and hell's bells, I'm not one to talk about that - just that it makes reading the excited, happy messages all the more painful; almost like looking at someone's last known photograph.

 

[Patricia]

Can I just say at this point that I really, really wish PA's message board didn't have pictures of its authors on there every time you read them. Not that they're unattractive or anything like that, and hell's bells, I'm not one to talk about that - just that it makes reading the excited, happy messages all the more painful; almost like looking at someone's last known photograph.

Then you really, really should not view the boards. Your pain is self-inflicted.

 

[KellyS.]

No, it is not. They have printed out books with far fewer words than that. Mostly poetry. Others the authors called "novellas." At times there was much discussions about word ratio versus novellas, novels, etc., and always with much confusion. The saddest thing about this phase of discussion is that most of the authors when finding out the price for their novellas or books, would be shocked and embarrassed. Some of those would go on a public rant on the boards asking how they would be able to "sell" their novel and stating they would be embarrassed to even try. Of course they would be promptly chastised by the PA cheerleaders or banned.

(Off subject. I, for the first time I can remember, forgot to set my clocks up!)

My book, or whatever you wish to call it, was 21,000 words. I never thought of submitting it anywhere as I knew it was way too small. I landed at PA by accident. Thought what the hey and submitted. They put $16.95 on it. I was and still am embarrassed beyond words about that.

 

[KellyS.]

Linda,

You are so not alone in this boat. I feel the same way but you already know that.

Anne

I've written a little since finding out about PA. Before I did find out, I simply worried about how my first was doing. It wasn't and isn't "doing" at all. That's a good thing though. lol

I'm back at square one wondering if what I write is junk or not. I feel as if the time with PA was a huge waste.

 

[James D. Macdonald]

...re why authors don't need to handle their own marketing:

http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/main/11803.htm.

I don't fault these PA authors at all, they want to get their books out there and be read, they just don't yet realize that their publisher doesn't share the same interest.

An author says:

But, if I am going to develop a marketing plan, I need to know what they are doing so that i can use my own time more effectively, and not duplicating what they do.

I can answer that:

1. They might send a press release ("resonate with an audience ... fits our specialty like a glove") to someone, up to a year before the book is available.
2. They send order forms to the list of family and friends you gave them.
3. They give the ISBN to the on-line bookstores.
4. If a reviewer writes to them, and if they feel like it, they might send out a review copy or two.

That's it. They do nothing else. Make your plans accordingly.

 

[lindylou45]

If you say one word of praise about PA, they file it and use it against you if you ever send an email demanding an answer or criticizing them in anyway. I made a post on the PA board about how helpful my editor was and called her by name. I know that is going to fly back and hit me in the face, but that will not stop my fight. I will persevere with the rest of you in the war.

They did that exact thing with me. In a rebuttal to the MDAG Janet Morrissey quoted an email I had sent. They will also cut and paste any positve comments you've made on the message board and put it on their testimonial page.