The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[Christine N.]

Diana...

When is your interview going to air? Or did it already? I missed part of the news one day last week, so I don't know if I missed it. But between Terry Shiavo and the Pope they haven't been doing the Consumer report.

Any idea?

Also... you're the woman!

and... PA SUCKS!

 

[James D. Macdonald]

Hmmm...do you think they are actually convincing themselves that it's really the former?

Dorothy Deering was a true sociopath. On the day she was convicted, as she was being led out of the courthouse in handcuffs, she still didn't think she'd done anything wrong.

C'mon Ed, what about all those great press releases...they're works of art!

Perhaps Denny Hatch wrote 'em? Maybe that's why they haven't written a new one -- they don't know how.

What does this mean for your nespotism theory? Pretty cruel...

You've heard the saying about "honor among thieves"?

 

[James D. Macdonald]

Congrats to The New Yorker for dodging the bullet. Who would have thought that requesting a well-designed, well-edited book would be grounds for terminating the contract under Paragraph 25 (Author Interference)?

25. The Publisher agrees to produce the said literary work within 365 days from the date of the signing of this agreement by both parties thereto, provided Publisher is not hindered by causes beyond its own control, or by the Author.

 

[Sassenach]

Diana:

I don't think your publicity 'hook' can be underestimated. While I'm sure your book is good, you also have something to pique interest.

 

[DaveKuzminski]

New Yorker, could you please email some of your correspondence with PA to me or post it here? I'd like to analyze it for suggestions to give to others who are in similar positions to what yours were.

 

[tab]

Forgive my "bashing," but hear me out...

And, on top of all that, they're all failed writers with huge chips on their shoulders.

They are failed writers who are mightily trying to attract other "failed" writers "with huge chips on their shoulders". A prime example of this tactic is infocenter's explaination of why editing is now optional. Infocenter stressed that the option is intended for those would-be PA authors do not want some publisher to edit their precious words, brilliant tone, and unique style. Optional editing is attractive to writers who believe that what they have written is the best thing since the invention of water and have been continuously insulted by the ever-growing pile of rejections sent to them by the agents and editors who didn't agree. They already believe that the publishing world is insidiously evil and misguided. After all, anyone who would deem to criticize or question their magnificant prose must be a horrible fool whose goal is to keep fresh, original voices out of the literary scene.

Of course, this is not "new" news to any of us who have been faithfully following the PA sage. Larry Cloppers has articulated that this is the type of consumer (aka: author) PA wants to attract - the bitter, egotistical, vanity writer. Because they cannot attract enough of these types of writers, they attempt to create them by spewing forth nauseating, David v. Goliath -like propaganda. PA steps in to help puny, powerless writers sidestep the behemoth of the NYC publishing houses.

Any writer who doesn't fit this mold will have a heartbreaking experience with PA. The tragedy is that most writers don't fit the mold. Most writers want to improve their craft, want to put forth their best work, want to sell books, and want the public to read their work.

I know this has been said before countless of times. I just wanted to put it in the context of the new optional editing scheme.

 

[MacAllister]

Tab posted:

They are failed writers who are mightily trying to attract other "failed" writers "with huge chips on their shoulders". A prime example of this tactic is infocenter's explaination of why editing is now optional. Infocenter stressed that the option is intended for those would-be PA authors do not want some publisher to edit their precious words, brilliant tone, and unique style.

Tab, I've thought for a while that what PA does is the scam-publishing equivalent of fishing with drag nets: tuna, dolphins, sharks, giant squid...they don't really care who they trap and drown. They're just going to mush it all up together and sell it by the pound anyway.

Good books, bad books, mediocre books...doesn't matter a bit to them. They all pay the same.

The really sad part is how much disinformation they deliberately disseminate in order to hook the uninformed and/or novice writer: All those lies that must later be unlearned. As with any deprogramming, it's difficult to know just where reality and misperceptions meet, and where they diverge. And the sheer number of authors that PA takes in and regurgitates suggests that there are thousands of writers out there with at least one or two completely wacked and totally wrong ideas about writing, editing, and publishing.

 

[Ed Williams]

Here's a little piece of an article about PA that's interesting....

Some writers organizations will not accept PublishAmerica authors or offer only limited memberships. Those organizations include the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, the Mystery Writers of America and the Authors Guild, whose members include Stephen King and Scott Turow. The organization gets about 50 membership requests a year from PublishAmerica authors. All are rejected.

The link to the article is right here:

http://publishing-industry.net/contentid-2-page2.html

That tells you a whole lot right there. Wonder how many other writer's organizations/groups there are that exclude PA books? And wonder why PA doesn't have this information posted up on their website, I mean, after all, Larry Clopper was recently quoted as saying:

"Now they hold their books in their hands, and they are sneering down at the publishing industry that shunned them."

Since it's obvious that Larry and PA are trying to effect anti-literary establishment images, what better way to demonstrate that than to show all of the establishment writing organizations/groups that PA can't join? Maybe PA's motto ought to be:

"Who're you gonna believe, everybody else or us?" ​

 

[Crystal Rivers]

Quick answer for Crystal: The "Big Three" (also known as the Three Stooges) are Larry Clopper, Willem Meiners, and Miranda Prather, the three principals of PA.

PA apparently has a few printers, the main one being Lightning Source. A few people here have received PA books sent by other printers, though.

Thanks, Jenna, for answering my question. I guess I was "stipid" as I thought you were referring to three separate publishers. Duhh. What can you expect, I did sign a contract with PA.

I'm getting smarter and smarter, however, as I am no longer promoting the book. I don't want others to get taken in by PA the way I was. Stipid! Stipid! Stipid!!!

 

[DaveKuzminski]

And the sheer number of authors that PA takes in and regurgitates suggests that there are thousands of writers out there with at least one or two completely wacked and totally wrong ideas about writing, editing, and publishing.

This is something I've been pointing at for years now. Many of those new writers started in a vacuum. Their only exposure has been to the momentary clip in a movie or TV program that mentioned something about publishing or writing without any explanation of how it really worked. Because they've got imagination, one of the necessary ingredients for producing a writer, they deduce how the system operates according to their environment. Consequently, many get it wrong.

Again, I can only encourage everyone to put a link on their author's page to a site that contains the information they really need. It's worth it, even if your site saves only one other writer from throwing away money needed for that writer's family's well-being. Please do it and encourage other writers to do the same. Only when we cover enough of the net with warnings to counter the slick ads that the scammers use will we see any progress in our overall battle.

 

[Alphabeter]

Pardon the multiple posts. I'm catching up on a few days' posts which in this thread is tens of pages!

regarding "Glenn"

ah, blissful ignorance...
tick, tick...



hope he comes back when the reality check kicks in...

That should be right around the time he gets his first royalty check.

 

[Alphabeter]

Folks, on a totally different subject, I may have gotten the most jewel distinction I've yet received from a literary standpoint. It's not a new book contract or a great speaking gig or whatever - I just got a private message from ZaZ!

If I promise not to give him any more marks for awhile, do you think I can become so special?

 

[Richard]

Again, I can only encourage everyone to put a link on their author's page to a site that contains the information they really need.

Maybe we should make a campaign page, along with professional looking banners and things - something like www.thetruthaboutwriting.com, written along similar lines to that authorsmarket site PA runs, only with information rather than evil.

 

[victoriastrauss]

....if PA is hurting (and it sure looks like they are), they can do one of two things - reform, or get worse. It looks pretty obvious with their new "no editing" option and their recent contract offering that they're opting for the latter.

Or for Option 3, which I still think is at least a remote possibility...transitioning to a more straightforward vanity/self-pub model. They could do this and still keep their hook, which distinguishes them from other vanity PODs--no upfront payments.

- Victoria

 

[Alphabeter]

Yes, things tend to "resonate" with PA.

And resonate and resonate and resonate and resonate...

When Moe-randa and/or the webmaster gets a new thesaurus, you know the end is near!

 

[priceless1]

Major congrats to Diana

The good news here. I got my book back. Look for it this fall at a bookstore near you, in a wholly revised (and re-edited) edition titled Moonspell, Book I of the Moonsword Trilogy (Behler).
diana

No, I'm afraid there's better news. I received this email this morning from ForeWord Magazine.

"Congratulations on EMPRESS OF CLOUDS being selected as a 2004 BOOK OF THE YEAR AWARD finalist, science fiction category!"

Diana, I hope you forgive me for stealing your thunder, but the pride and joy I feel for your hard work and accomplishments are humbling to me.

What does this have to do with PA? Everything. As a former PA author with this series, Diana turned around to make some serious lemonade.

I don't post here very often anymore, but if I can say one thing to those who feel that their writing careers are forever tainted by their publisher, it would be to say never give up. Follow your dreams, have faith in your talent and make it happen. I wish you all the very best of everything.

And Diana? We'll see you at the BEA in NY in June.

 

[Alphabeter]

Ed, if only you were a rabid pack of loose women, conveniently numbered to represent each hair color and maybe even a bald woman, as long as they didn't talk too much and came packin' twelve packs of Killian's and a couple cartons of lung darts. I'd PM the *heehaw!* out of those broads and probably need the assistance of one Kas Hot Toddie Changling to get up on the sloppy seconds.

I think I've changed my thinking about Zaz. He doesn't want a smart redhead with a nasty mind.

*insert some apologetic disclaimer here for those of higher moral fiber*

*looksaround*

 

[Diana Hignutt]

Diana,

I ordered your book from PA when I first started browsing the PA thread after I got my acceptance letter. (The back cover snippet hooked me) Your book was, in one word, AMAZING. Your post is painful, because you put so much of your time and effort and MONEY into making XXXXXXXXXX a success and succeeded in only lining PA's pockets. As Bill Clinton would say "I feel your pain".

Okay, you Sparhawk, are one of my new favorite people. Thanks so much for a) buying that book, and b) liking it.

Lisa, Thanks. Yeah, I guess, I'll keep at this writing thing and see what happens.

Sass, Hey, when you're right, you're right. My personal story did add some juice to my marketing efforts.

diana

 

[Crystal Rivers]

Oh, thanks to the others, too, who answered my questions. You saved me a lot of time.

So now it's the "BIG 5": Larry, Willem, Miranda, Janet, and Jessica.

 

[CaoPaux]

Maybe we should make a campaign page, along with professional looking banners and things - something like www.thetruthaboutwriting.com, written along similar lines to that authorsmarket site PA runs, only with information rather than evil.

I was gonna vote for "The Smoking Pen" as a name, but it's already a freelancers' site. *pout* Ah, well.

 

[mdin]

Or for Option 3, which I still think is at least a remote possibility...transitioning to a more straightforward vanity/self-pub model. They could do this and still keep their hook, which distinguishes them from other vanity PODs--no upfront payments.

- Victoria

I'm also thinking this is what they intend to do, bit by bit.

The problem is the name "PublishAmerica" is mud. No matter what they do, their actions to this point are going to be held against them. Today, tomorrow, and ten years from now, anyone who's paid just a little bit of attention is going to have a nasty impression of them, even if they clean up their act.

The authors are the ones who will suffer because of this, most of whom will be going in without any idea of the history. Many of the advocates here proclaim they want PA to change their ways, but I think that's unrealistic and overly optimistic. Even if that happens, PA's very existence will remain a detriment to any writer who signs up with them.

 

[victoriastrauss]

The really sad part is how much disinformation they deliberately disseminate in order to hook the uninformed and/or novice writer: All those lies that must later be unlearned. As with any deprogramming, it's difficult to know just where reality and misperceptions meet, and where they diverge. And the sheer number of authors that PA takes in and regurgitates suggests that there are thousands of writers out there with at least one or two completely wacked and totally wrong ideas about writing, editing, and publishing.

And that's what makes their disinformation so compelling--it is beautifully designed to dovetail with any number of common writers' myths: new writers have no chance with large publishers; most manuscripts get rejected not because they're unmarketable but because the Big Publishers have no imagination and are risk-averse; once you sign a contract with the Big Boys you lose all control and they can do whatever they want with your Pearls of Prose; even the Big Publishers don't do any promotion for most of their authors...etc., etc.

Given the amount of time I've been tracking scams, it's maybe not surprising that I'm a conoisseur of a really clever scheme...and PublishAmerica, IMO, is one (which, again IMO, is one way it differs from the Deering scheme, which was a dumb scheme, or actually a series of dumb schemes). However, while many literary con artists start clever, they're rarely able to continue clever. They usually lose it around issues of greed and control, since they just can't stop themselves from squeezing the scheme for all it can yield, and feel personally insulted by any defiance from their victims.

- Victoria

 

[Diana Hignutt]

When is your interview going to air? Or did it already? I missed part of the news one day last week, so I don't know if I missed it. But between Terry Shiavo and the Pope they haven't been doing the Consumer report.

Any idea?

Also... you're the woman!

and... PA SUCKS!

Christine,

I promise that you'll know about the interview as soon as I know about it! And thanks!

diana

 

[ZaZ]

Work it own it

If it was hot, I'd remember it!

Jenn, work with me here. You were the one all up into sensory deprivation role playing. I didn't think they made cop garb in walrus size but you must remember begging and moaning for me to scream, "I am the eggman!" as I locked up the fur-covered cuffs. Then again, with that designer gag ball in your yap, who knows what you were saying? Could have been, "Fertilize my eggs, man." Goo goo g' joob. Ga-Goo goo g' joob.

On a side note, some PAer sent me some nastygram some Norm guy sent Amazon about Travis and his eves in Georgia. I didn't really read it. I was too busy getting ready to go to the Zhateau Zorbaz about an hour away and drink myself into a warm fuzz. It's exactly what this Normy guy needs. A pill, his own copy of Atlanta Nights and a good four hour soak.

Speaking of lyin' arse soaks, Ed, put the wings away, buddy. You aren't foolin' anyone. Besides, as chaperone, you must condone and will be prone to acts so vile, girls gone wild, just keep the car in gear and revvin.' There will come a time when we ditch the sheep and Kevin.

 

[WhisperingBard]

"Congratulations on EMPRESS OF CLOUDS being selected as a 2004 BOOK OF THE YEAR AWARD finalist, science fiction category!"

Diana, you rock! Success *is* the best revenge!