Why am I self-publishing?

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Thewitt

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Whenever people find out that I've written a book, they ask me who is going to publish it. When I say that I'm going to self-publish, they ask me what that means. I explain the process to them and they are very concerned for my future... They don't see any possibility of success without a large, well known publishing house in my corner.

I then remind them of this unknown author named J.K. Rowling and a lesser known series built around this wizard kid named Harry...

Now why is that even interesting? Rowling didn't self-publish. It's interesting because the traditional publishers rejected Harry Potter for nearly five years, and finally in what might have been a last ditch effort for the struggling author, a relatively unknown publishing house printed 500 copies of the book because the owner's daughter would not stop pestering him about the book. He had not read the manuscript. He gave it to his child instead.

Traditional publishers said the book was all wrong. It was too long, too traditional, too old fashioned, too telling instead of showing, too slow to start, the first characters you meet are not likeable, it doesn't start in the right place, and it's politically incorrect. It's a fantasy with humor and very dark - an odd combination with the child reader in mind.

Now all of these things caused her book to be rejected by all of the UK's mainstream publishers, and we all know how that worked out in the end.

If she had self-published, would the book have been the wild success that ultimately defined the series? I think the answer is yes, though the timing was problematic.

Turn the clock forward to today.

How many of you have received the same type of rejections for your work? Do you rewrite or just move to another publisher? J.K. Rowling moved on, keeping her work essentially the same in every submission, rejection after rejection. Imagine how difficult that was for the hard working but very poor author.

My favorite, established authors are now self-publishing their most recent works. Yes, they have a track record and a following and people look for their books and eagerly await their release. Will that happen with my first novel? Not in any way, shape or form.

The odds of writing a best seller are what? 10,000 to 1? 20,000 to 1? 100,000 to 1? Has anyone ever done the math? Most books never sell very well, even if they are published by a major, well known publishing house. Why? Is it perhaps because the cookie-cutter approach that gets your work accepted isn't what the readers really want? Maybe the work is just not that interesting, or readers never really find the author even when a major publisher picks them up. I don't know the answer there, and I suspect there are as many reasons for failure as their are failed books in print.

My book is long. Too long to get by any of the "rules" that I keep reading on this and other writer's forums. OK. I get it. As a print book, it would be unwieldy. As an eBook however, it weighs the same as if it had half the number of words. It will still be available in Print on Demand, however I don't expect to ever see it on the shelf at Borders.

My beta readers loved it, almost without exception, and have insisted that I leave it at is current length. The length allowed me a depth of character development and back story that I find missing in many books, and multiple tracks - even though at times it can be a challenge to remember where one character left off since it's been several hundred pages since you read about that person... The shortened version was panned by all but one of 30 readers... OK. I listened.

I paid a copy editor to go through the first three chapters and though she was very professional, I did not find the value. Yes, I use very too often. I know that. I talk that way as well. Yes I end dialog sentences on a preposition. So do most people when they talk... Yes I write with run-on sentences. Not all of the time, but enough that you can identify several in each chapter. OK. If I can read it aloud and it sounds like it flows well, then I leave it in place. I read every chapter aloud in the editing process. I find that a great way to get a feel for the flow.

Yes, I am a first time author at 57 years of age, and I am certain that there are many more talented writers out there who could remove half of my words and tell the same story. Wonderful. Let them write their own books in their own way, and let me write my books in my own way. You can love their books and hate mine, I won't take it personally. I write the way I write, and that's not likely to change much in the future.

One of my beta readers asked me to include his brief review in my book, and though he is not the New York Times or USA Today's book reviewer, he is an avid reader who buys dozens of books a year in my genre. What he wrote made me blush, and is certainly higher praise than I deserve.

He wrote, "Very enjoyable read. Tim's storyline ranks right up there with some of the classic fantasy writers such as Brooks and Goodkind. Excellent first work."

WOW. I mean WOW. Yes it's only one data point, and it's not from a professional book reviewer, and I suspect that none of you would think the same if you read it, but really. If he represents the typical fantasy fan base, I could not be more pleased.

Now my challenge of course is to get my book in the hands of as many readers as possible, and that will be a big challenge indeed. I've read much of the marketing advice on this and other forums, and I'll be working as many of these avenues as make sense that I can.

What I probably won't do is to give away my book or sell it for $0.99. Why? Because I want people to value my work and take it seriously. There are plenty of free books out there that people can add to their libraries if that's what they want. I'll try a different approach, and charge money for my book. Novel approach, I know. I'll pay to market in ways that make sense, and treat it like a product and a business. I've had success selling products in the past, and hopefully some of that success will spill over to this product as well.

So why am I self-publishing again? I want the freedom to do this my way, with no one to be accountable to other than my readers, and no one to blame if things don't go as planned.

I'm in it for the long haul, having already written the first 30,000 words of Book II in the series, with an outline that extends to Book III and IV, then jumps to prequels that define the world in which these books take place. Two books a year is my writing schedule right now, and I'll see how that works out by early spring when Book II should be ready to go.

For anyone who has managed to read this far, thanks for taking the time to do so. I hope you have great success in whatever manner you choose to make your books available to the public, and should you decide to give away 100,000 copies as your way to get your book out to the masses, you have my complete support. My goal for next year is to sell an average of 50 books a day, spread across three books and all of the possible outlets.

I'll let you know this time next year if I was able to pull that off or not.
 

Katrina S. Forest

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I've heard possibly a half dozen version of how Ms. Rowling found a publisher. Heck if I know which one is correct. But this would be the first time I've heard of the publishing house printing 500 copies without ever having read the book. One would think if the owner's daughter simply wanted to read it, he would give her a single copy. ^_^

Well, however it happened, I'm sure glad the book came around. Sorry for going on a tangent. I'm glad you've reaching a publishing decision that you're happy with and wish you the best of luck with your own book.
 
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Old Hack

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Thewitt, your post is full of inaccuracies and things which are flat-out wrong.

Now why is that even interesting? Rowling didn't self-publish. It's interesting because the traditional publishers rejected Harry Potter for nearly five years,

Not true. Here Rowling says,

It took my agent, Christopher, a year to find a publisher.

and finally in what might have been a last ditch effort for the struggling author, a relatively unknown publishing house...

Again, not true.

The Harry Potter books were first published by Bloomsbury, which is not "a relatively unknown publishing house" by any stretch of the imagination. It's been a strong publisher for as long as I can remember.

...printed 500 copies of the book because the owner's daughter would not stop pestering him about the book. He had not read the manuscript. He gave it to his child instead.

Misleading.

The book was submitted to Bloomsbury; the chairman of the company read it, then gave it to his daughter to review. She liked it too, so after consultation with the editorial team they made an offer.

The initial print run was 500 copies but that was for a hard cover edition which, if my memory serves me right was in a library binding--which would reduce the print run significantly. There was always a longer paperback run planned.

Traditional publishers said the book was all wrong. It was too long, too traditional, too old fashioned, too telling instead of showing, too slow to start, the first characters you meet are not likeable, it doesn't start in the right place, and it's politically incorrect. It's a fantasy with humor and very dark - an odd combination with the child reader in mind.

It's "trade publisher", not "traditional publisher".

As for the comments you say those trade publishers made: cite your sources, please.

Now all of these things caused her book to be rejected by all of the UK's mainstream publishers, and we all know how that worked out in the end.

But the book wasn't "rejected by all of the UK's mainstream publishers": it was published by Bloomsbury.

If she had self-published, would the book have been the wild success that ultimately defined the series? I think the answer is yes, though the timing was problematic.

Great. So you think the Harry Potter books would have been a success if self published. They are not typical, though, and should not be used as an indicator of what's usual or possible for us all.

Turn the clock forward to today.

How many of you have received the same type of rejections for your work? Do you rewrite or just move to another publisher? J.K. Rowling moved on, keeping her work essentially the same in every submission, rejection after rejection. Imagine how difficult that was for the hard working but very poor author.

If I remember rightly, she made very few submissions before she found an agent; and her agent made very few submissions before finding her a publisher.

The odds of writing a best seller are what? 10,000 to 1? 20,000 to 1? 100,000 to 1? Has anyone ever done the math?

You can't do the maths on this question. The odds are different for every single book, because every single book is different. Some books have no hope of ever being published well or finding a decent number of readers because they are so cringingly terrible that no one will buy them; others have a good chance of getting published if submitted to the right people at the right time; and a few have a great chance of getting published well if they're submitted appropriately.

Most books never sell very well, even if they are published by a major, well known publishing house. Why?

Not true. This is a myth that was started by vanity publishers and is now perpetuated by evangelistic self publishers.

Is it perhaps because the cookie-cutter approach that gets your work accepted isn't what the readers really want?

Good trade publishers don't use a "cookie-cutter approach"; and if they published books readers don't really want they'd soon go out of business. Again, this is a baseless criticism perpetuated by self-publishing evangelists.

I paid a copy editor to go through the first three chapters and though she was very professional, I did not find the value. Yes, I use very too often. I know that. I talk that way as well. Yes I end dialog sentences on a preposition. So do most people when they talk... Yes I write with run-on sentences. Not all of the time, but enough that you can identify several in each chapter. OK. If I can read it aloud and it sounds like it flows well, then I leave it in place. I read every chapter aloud in the editing process. I find that a great way to get a feel for the flow.

Editors and copy editors are different things.

Making sure your work flows well when you read it out is no substitute for having it properly edited.

Yes, I am a first time author at 57 years of age, and I am certain that there are many more talented writers out there who could remove half of my words and tell the same story. Wonderful. Let them write their own books in their own way, and let me write my books in my own way. You can love their books and hate mine, I won't take it personally. I write the way I write, and that's not likely to change much in the future.

Now I'm hearing warning bells ringing.

I hope your writing is brilliant, and that you're right to defend it. But in almost every instance where I've been presented by this argument, it's been by a writer whose prose is far too flowery, I'm afraid. The length of this post does not encourage me.

WOW. I mean WOW. Yes it's only one data point, and it's not from a professional book reviewer, and I suspect that none of you would think the same if you read it, but really. If he represents the typical fantasy fan base, I could not be more pleased.

He's your friend. Of course he's going to be nice about your book.

So why am I self-publishing again? I want the freedom to do this my way, with no one to be accountable to other than my readers, and no one to blame if things don't go as planned.

[...] My goal for next year is to sell an average of 50 books a day, spread across three books and all of the possible outlets.

I wish you luck, I really do.
 

shadowwalker

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I, too, wish you luck, but also wish SPs could explain their reasoning for self-publishing without relying on inaccuracies about trade publishing. Others considering self-publishing read these things and it could mean making a decision they wouldn't have had they read the facts instead.
 

Bufty

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I did manage to make it through the wordy jungle of your post and I wish you well, but still raise my hat and say, "Thank goodness and three cheers for the Old Hacks of this world".
 
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Dennis E. Taylor

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I liked the post, and empathized with a lot of the comments. For one thing, I'm the same age, and frankly I'm a little impatient. One of the issues with "traditional" publishing, whether through an agent or a publisher, is the amount of lead-time involved (at least according to people on this site). And after all that, not a heck of a lot of financial advantage (at least according to people on this site).

So far, the arguments I've seen in favour of traditional publishing avenues seem to lean more towards the cachet of being a published author (vs the non-cachet of being a self-pub), and the opportunity to have professional editors, marketers, and cover artists working on your MS.

I guess the thing is, if you are a Rowlings, traditional publishing will pay better, but if you're part of the 99.9%, maybe the difference isn't enough to tolerate the extra time -- especially for those of us with one foot in the grave. :D

To be clear, I'm not firmly on either side of the fence. I've had a cover made for me, but I'm also querying, albeit slowly. And still editing. When I get to the point where I'm totally happy with my MS (does that ever happen?), I'll have a decision to make.
 

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I liked the post, and empathized with a lot of the comments. For one thing, I'm the same age, and frankly I'm a little impatient. One of the issues with "traditional" publishing,

As I think I said earlier, it's "trade publishing", not "traditional". As I didn't say earlier, we ask you to use the correct terminology while at AW even if you don't use it elsewhere.

whether through an agent or a publisher, is the amount of lead-time involved (at least according to people on this site). And after all that, not a heck of a lot of financial advantage (at least according to people on this site).

As has been said before, the lead-time is there for a reason; and while the income per copy sold is often higher when self-published than when trade published, the total amount received is usually more for trade-published writers. When you factor in things like foreign and subsidiary rights sales that income increases dramatically. However: the reality is that most of us won't get that lucrative trade deal, which means that not publishing, or self publishing, are the only options open to us.

So far, the arguments I've seen in favour of traditional publishing avenues seem to lean more towards the cachet of being a published author (vs the non-cachet of being a self-pub), and the opportunity to have professional editors, marketers, and cover artists working on your MS.

I don't think cachet is an issue.

Having an army of skilled, experienced professionals working on getting your book published in the best way possible, and ensuring it's marketed and sold effectively too, all at no cost to you? That's definitely an advantage of trade publishing. As is the issue of foreign and subsidiary rights sales, which I mentioned earlier.
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M. H. Lee

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What Old Hack says is important--having skilled, experienced professionals to do a thorough structural edit of your novel? And promote it? Priceless. It's one of the many reasons I've yet to self-pub my novels. I'd much rather go the trade pub route with those. I know with the right team, I can be better than I am alone.

Another thought: I'm taking a class from Dean Wesley Smith on making a living at your writing and he says to estimate that you'll make $40 a month on each novel you publish. Sure, you might hit it out of the park and sell more, but you can't expect that. That's $480 a year (and far more than I've made on anything I've self-pubbed to date).

If you get a small advance from an e-only pub that could be $500. That's equivalent to one year's income from that self-pub book before one copy sells. If you get a $5,000 advance from an established publisher, that's equivalent to ten years' of income on that book.

And, you get something that's incredibly valuable: You get to focus your time on writing more books instead of figuring out how to write a blurb and pick a good cover and submit to advertising sites and hustle for reviews and...

There are reasons to go either way. I've learned a ton from self-pubbing. Just remember, it's not black and white.

And I want to say that JK Rowling subbed to seven agents before she found her agent, but don't quote me on that. (And also that the series didn't really take off until the third book was out, but also not bothering to go find the cites for that, so I could be wrong.)
 

Old Hack

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Your figures for JKR seem about right to me, M. H.
 

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Another thought: I'm taking a class from Dean Wesley Smith on making a living at your writing and he says to estimate that you'll make $40 a month on each novel you publish. Sure, you might hit it out of the park and sell more, but you can't expect that. That's $480 a year (and far more than I've made on anything I've self-pubbed to date).

If you get a small advance from an e-only pub that could be $500. That's equivalent to one year's income from that self-pub book before one copy sells. If you get a $5,000 advance from an established publisher, that's equivalent to ten years' of income on that book.

And, you get something that's incredibly valuable: You get to focus your time on writing more books instead of figuring out how to write a blurb and pick a good cover and submit to advertising sites and hustle for reviews and...

There are reasons to go either way. I've learned a ton from self-pubbing. Just remember, it's not black and white.

Maybe my experience isn't the usual (I'm certain it isn't from what I've read here) but that sounds HORRIBLE. I don't think there's been a single month since I self-published my first book on Amazon for Kindle where I haven't made at least $40, and that's in the dead times months and months after the last new release when sales are dying out.
Is that REALLY what non-big-name trade published authors make nowadays?
 

Old Hack

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Is that REALLY what non-big-name trade published authors make nowadays?

Nope. Nowhere near.

ETA: Sorry, that wasn't helpful. I'll expand.

It all depends on how you define "writer".

Studies by the UK's Society of Authors have shown that the average writer earns less than £15k a year. But that can and does include earnings by people who might, for instance, have published one book with a dire press or a handful of articles and nothing more.

The writers I know earn a good amount more than the $500 each year which was mentioned upthread. They work hard for their money and earn in several ways: book sales, public speaking, editing, and tutoring are common.

E-publishers and tiny independent presses tend to pay smaller or non-existent advances. But authors who are trade published publish with other, better-paying presses too; and as one builds up a decent backlist, and a list of foreign and subsidiary sales, income can increase very nicely indeed.
 
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M. H. Lee

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I believe those ($500 and $5,000) are "typical" first deal amounts. I think YA may be closer to $10,000. Of course, there are always folks who do better. Lauralam who post in this forum about her hybrid efforts I believe signed a six-figure two-book deal for her first trade deal. (Also keep in mind that those are all advance amounts. If a book does well, the author will earn out the advance and make more than that.)

And, yes, for every self-pubber who sees strong sales on an ongoing basis, I'd say there are 20+ self-pubbers (if not more) who either see strong sales for a few weeks or months and then nothing until their next release, or never see anything really. And where that cliff is really depends on your genre. I've heard erotica authors claim they need to publish every three to four days to keep sales up. Most talk about a three or four month cliff.

I'd say you're probably writing in an area where there aren't a lot of good writers who can nail the genre but there's high demand if people can. So, good on you. Unfortunately for everyone considering self-pubbing, I think the successes talk more than the failures, so the picture is skewed. (In the same way most of us think the odds of dying in a plane crash are higher than they really are.)
 

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Most books never sell very well, even if they are published by a major, well known publishing house.

Not true. This is a myth that was started by vanity publishers and is now perpetuated by evangelistic self publishers.

I guess it depends on your definition of "selling well", but my trade-published friends told me that my expectations of sales even in popular genres from major publishers were unrealistically high and that most midlisters sold considerably less than I thought. And I thought I was lowballing.
 
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Old Hack

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Can you give us an idea of the sales figures you were expecting?

ETA: A lot of the "evidence" for the whole "most books don't sell well" thing comes from people taking the total number of books sold and then dividing that figure by the total number of ISBNs. This doesn't allow for the point that ISBNs are attached to things like diaries, calendars, and so on as well as books; nor does it allow for the various editions that one title can have, or the foreign and translation sales which are often made, all of which contribute to those sales figures.
 
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Polenth

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50 books a day is 18250 books a year. You're also writing in a genre I haven't seen as, "I just hit publish and people started buying it, with my terrible cover and no marketing." Even among the successes here, few would hit that many sales with two books in a year.

Setting an unlikely goal means you're more likely to get demoralised and stop. I set very low goals and it was still hard when I didn't hit them. About the only goal you can be sure about is putting out the best book you can.
 

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Nice to see the same general attack posts exist here as in every other forum on the Internet.

I wonder if you guys speak to people face to face the way you respond to people who post on your forum.

It's OK. I honestly did not expect anyone to agree with or support my observations.

If the facts of the Rowling publication are in error, mea culpa. That information came from reading several articles in, shall I say it, professionally edited and published trade journals. If they misrepresented what really happened in her case then shame on them.

If authors are really making so little, why would any publisher ever entertain publishing any print book at all? Me thinks there is even more misinformation in the replies to my post.

Why did I post the first note?

Good question.

I won't make that mistake again.

Have a nice day.
 

shadowwalker

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Why is it that pointing out inaccuracies is so often called an "attack"? How were you attacked?

Most people come to writing forums to learn about writing and publishing. If I'm working under misconceptions, I like to find out before I screw myself. Apparently others don't. :Shrug:
 

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Whenever people find out that I've written a book, they ask me who is going to publish it. When I say that I'm going to self-publish, they ask me what that means. I explain the process to them and they are very concerned for my future... They don't see any possibility of success without a large, well known publishing house in my corner.

I then remind them of this unknown author named J.K. Rowling and a lesser known series built around this wizard kid named Harry...

Now why is that even interesting? Rowling didn't self-publish. It's interesting because the traditional publishers rejected Harry Potter for nearly five years, and finally in what might have been a last ditch effort for the struggling author, a relatively unknown publishing house printed 500 copies of the book because the owner's daughter would not stop pestering him about the book. He had not read the manuscript. He gave it to his child instead.

This is kind of wildly untrue, and ridiculous on its face. It wasn't an unknown house, and I don't know of anyone who'd greenlight a print run based solely on a kid's view, without having read an ms. themselves. Why would someone do that?

Also, afaik, Rowling didn't sub that much before she was agented and her agent didn't have to go that far to find a deal.


Traditional publishers said the book was all wrong. It was too long, too traditional, too old fashioned, too telling instead of showing, too slow to start, the first characters you meet are not likeable, it doesn't start in the right place, and it's politically incorrect. It's a fantasy with humor and very dark - an odd combination with the child reader in mind.

Now all of these things caused her book to be rejected by all of the UK's mainstream publishers, and we all know how that worked out in the end.

If she had self-published, would the book have been the wild success that ultimately defined the series? I think the answer is yes, though the timing was problematic.

Turn the clock forward to today.

How many of you have received the same type of rejections for your work? Do you rewrite or just move to another publisher? J.K. Rowling moved on, keeping her work essentially the same in every submission, rejection after rejection. Imagine how difficult that was for the hard working but very poor author.

See above.

My favorite, established authors are now self-publishing their most recent works. Yes, they have a track record and a following and people look for their books and eagerly await their release. Will that happen with my first novel? Not in any way, shape or form.

The odds of writing a best seller are what? 10,000 to 1? 20,000 to 1? 100,000 to 1? Has anyone ever done the math? Most books never sell very well, even if they are published by a major, well known publishing house. Why? Is it perhaps because the cookie-cutter approach that gets your work accepted isn't what the readers really want? Maybe the work is just not that interesting, or readers never really find the author even when a major publisher picks them up. I don't know the answer there, and I suspect there are as many reasons for failure as their are failed books in print.

My book is long. Too long to get by any of the "rules" that I keep reading on this and other writer's forums. OK. I get it. As a print book, it would be unwieldy. As an eBook however, it weighs the same as if it had half the number of words. It will still be available in Print on Demand, however I don't expect to ever see it on the shelf at Borders.

My beta readers loved it, almost without exception, and have insisted that I leave it at is current length. The length allowed me a depth of character development and back story that I find missing in many books, and multiple tracks - even though at times it can be a challenge to remember where one character left off since it's been several hundred pages since you read about that person... The shortened version was panned by all but one of 30 readers... OK. I listened.

I paid a copy editor to go through the first three chapters and though she was very professional, I did not find the value. Yes, I use very too often. I know that. I talk that way as well. Yes I end dialog sentences on a preposition. So do most people when they talk... Yes I write with run-on sentences. Not all of the time, but enough that you can identify several in each chapter. OK. If I can read it aloud and it sounds like it flows well, then I leave it in place. I read every chapter aloud in the editing process. I find that a great way to get a feel for the flow.

Oh dear.

Yes, I am a first time author at 57 years of age, and I am certain that there are many more talented writers out there who could remove half of my words and tell the same story. Wonderful. Let them write their own books in their own way, and let me write my books in my own way. You can love their books and hate mine, I won't take it personally. I write the way I write, and that's not likely to change much in the future.

That's an interesting attitude for someone who apparently wants to be in the creative arts.

One of my beta readers asked me to include his brief review in my book, and though he is not the New York Times or USA Today's book reviewer, he is an avid reader who buys dozens of books a year in my genre. What he wrote made me blush, and is certainly higher praise than I deserve.

He wrote, "Very enjoyable read. Tim's storyline ranks right up there with some of the classic fantasy writers such as Brooks and Goodkind. Excellent first work."

WOW. I mean WOW. Yes it's only one data point, and it's not from a professional book reviewer, and I suspect that none of you would think the same if you read it, but really. If he represents the typical fantasy fan base, I could not be more pleased.

He represents your friend.

Now my challenge of course is to get my book in the hands of as many readers as possible, and that will be a big challenge indeed. I've read much of the marketing advice on this and other forums, and I'll be working as many of these avenues as make sense that I can.

What I probably won't do is to give away my book or sell it for $0.99. Why? Because I want people to value my work and take it seriously. There are plenty of free books out there that people can add to their libraries if that's what they want. I'll try a different approach, and charge money for my book. Novel approach, I know. I'll pay to market in ways that make sense, and treat it like a product and a business. I've had success selling products in the past, and hopefully some of that success will spill over to this product as well.

If you want people to take your work seriously, have it edited or learn to edit it yourself. If I pick up a book and find errors in grammar, run-on sentences and the like, I'll put the book right back down. I don't care if, buried deep in the pages of errors, there's a great story. If the writer doesn't care enough to take the time edit, I don't see why I should take the time to slog through the mess.

There are surely people who either don't care or notice errors; there are plenty of people who do.


So why am I self-publishing again? I want the freedom to do this my way, with no one to be accountable to other than my readers, and no one to blame if things don't go as planned.

I'm in it for the long haul, having already written the first 30,000 words of Book II in the series, with an outline that extends to Book III and IV, then jumps to prequels that define the world in which these books take place. Two books a year is my writing schedule right now, and I'll see how that works out by early spring when Book II should be ready to go.

For anyone who has managed to read this far, thanks for taking the time to do so. I hope you have great success in whatever manner you choose to make your books available to the public, and should you decide to give away 100,000 copies as your way to get your book out to the masses, you have my complete support. My goal for next year is to sell an average of 50 books a day, spread across three books and all of the possible outlets.

I'll let you know this time next year if I was able to pull that off or not.

That's quite the goal, especially if you're bound and determined not to edit your work. Good luck with that?
 

Fruitbat

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...I want the freedom to do this my way, with no one to be accountable to other than my readers, and no one to blame if things don't go as planned...

All else aside, here's what I consider the bottom line. You want to do it the way you want to do it and aren't really interested in hearing input to the contrary at this time, right?

There's certainly nothing wrong with that. After all, it's your project. When I find myself too often having to defend a position that I don't feel like defending, I usually just go do what I want and don't discuss it anymore. That way people can't annoy me. (Bonus: they also can't say "I told you so" if/when I fall on my face).

Q: So, Thewitt, I hear you're writing a novel series. Are you looking for an agent?

A: I have no idea what you're talking about. ;)

I hope you start a thread in the self-publishing section so we can follow your progress. Good luck.
 
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Polenth

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Nice to see the same general attack posts exist here as in every other forum on the Internet.

I wonder if you guys speak to people face to face the way you respond to people who post on your forum.

I didn't say what I said to be mean, but because I know how it feels to miss a target. It's hard not to feel like you've failed, especially if sales are way under target. So I hope you'll reconsider what I said. If you're not prepared for what happens if the book doesn't sell, it's going to be that much harder.
 

BenPanced

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Nice to see the same general attack posts exist here as in every other forum on the Internet.

I wonder if you guys speak to people face to face the way you respond to people who post on your forum.

It's OK. I honestly did not expect anyone to agree with or support my observations.

If the facts of the Rowling publication are in error, mea culpa. That information came from reading several articles in, shall I say it, professionally edited and published trade journals. If they misrepresented what really happened in her case then shame on them.

If authors are really making so little, why would any publisher ever entertain publishing any print book at all? Me thinks there is even more misinformation in the replies to my post.

Why did I post the first note?

Good question.

I won't make that mistake again.

Have a nice day.
:Shrug:
 

RedWombat

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Maybe my experience isn't the usual (I'm certain it isn't from what I've read here) but that sounds HORRIBLE. I don't think there's been a single month since I self-published my first book on Amazon for Kindle where I haven't made at least $40, and that's in the dead times months and months after the last new release when sales are dying out.
Is that REALLY what non-big-name trade published authors make nowadays?

I suppose it depends on how many books are out and for how long--I assume it spans the gamut. My six year old kid's book with no marketing pulls in a couple hundred a year, f'rex, but the new books/series books move a heckuva lot more than that.

I'm a little puzzled by the $40 a month figure myself, gotta say, but I suppose "Where did he get the numbers?" is another thread.
 

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Nice to see the same general attack posts exist here as in every other forum on the Internet.

I wonder if you guys speak to people face to face the way you respond to people who post on your forum.

I've read through the thread and don't see anyone attacking you; nor have I received any notifications of reported posts.

Thewitt, I know it's hard sometimes to have your comments refuted but please don't mistake what's going on here for attacks. From your initial post in this thread it seems that you're about to self publish and that you've based your decision to do so on a lot of erroneous information. What sort of friends would we be if we didn't try to set you straight so that you could be sure you'd made the right decision?

In future, if you have a problem with a post, report it. Don't complain in-thread like this as all it does is derail the thread.

It's OK. I honestly did not expect anyone to agree with or support my observations.

If the facts of the Rowling publication are in error, mea culpa. That information came from reading several articles in, shall I say it, professionally edited and published trade journals. If they misrepresented what really happened in her case then shame on them.

Don't get me started!

Every time I read an article about publishing in a newspaper I see a whole list of problems with it. It makes me wonder what's wrong with all the other news. It's so important to verify these facts if you're going to make a decision based on them, and that usually means going back to primary sources.

If authors are really making so little, why would any publisher ever entertain publishing any print book at all? Me thinks there is even more misinformation in the replies to my post.

What would be better is if you'd quote the specific parts you take exception to, and then refute them. As it is, this just looks like carping, and doesn't help.
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gingerwoman

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I didn't see anyone attack Thewitt, but a couple of people did jump to the conclusion that the "beta reader" was a friend. A lot of writers use beta readers that they meet online who aren't friends.

Thanks for the link to the JK Rowing interview Old Hack, I've heard so many different stories, it was good to finally read what Rowling herself has to say on the matter.
 
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