YA All-Ages Cafe

[Sage]

I can’t think of any (genre) reverse mysteries in YA off the top of my head, but you certainly can’t go wrong checking out the big mystery hitters in YA right now. One of Us is Lying and Holly Jackson’s books are very popular, and even folks who don’t usually read YA mention reading them to me. There’s a recommendation thread in the stickies, and I bet those who read more contemporary YA will have more recs. I’m more SFF, which often has a mystery element to it, so sometimes I have trouble separating out what’s a YA mystery & what just has a mystery involved.

 

[L.Zihe]

My 11 year old is a super reader and is currently reading at a 9th grade level which is really good. I am a bit worried that her phone usage will eventually quell her love of reading as it did her older sisters, but I can only hope her love of reading wins out in the end. We do have two libraries in this house (an old Victorian) and keep it stocked with books with one section specifically for YA books so she always has access to books, and try and use the small library boxes that prolific the area so the section is constantly refreshed.

Keeping reading interest into high school is honestly the hardest part. Arguably that period is what determines whether someone becomes a lifelong reader. Sounds like you're doing everything right!

As for genre's, I have done western, suspense, historical suspense, a femme fetale, a few children's books, a memoir, and two trilogy's, albeit they were all suspense novels. I typically do suspense as you can tell, specializing in reverse mysteries, but to quench the "I am writing about the same thing" dreaded writers block, like to try a different genre from time to time. This YA seems to be next, but I would like to do an animal novel (like Old Yeller or White Fang... that kind of novel)

Read and loved both of the listed books around age 8-10. To my understanding, animal novels, even ones with grimmer themes, tend to lean toward a younger audience. There are exceptions of course, but most tend to be considered MG books. Not saying that doesn't mean your daughter will enjoy them, but perhaps something to keep in mind.

With this current YA novel, I want it to be a reverse mystery, but I am trying to figure out how to make the plotline work. To get the right characterization in, I need to show that the murdered man was mean to the protagonist, but a reverse mystery typically starts with the very choreographed murder. I am not a huge fan of flashbacks so its been a little struggle to work it all out. BUT... that is why I write novels, to keep my brain engaged. Its not about having a finished novel in the end, but rather the fun of working out a great novel.

Throwing out some ideas. Could the protagonist and the victim have been having a disagreement right before the murder, so we can move straight from the conflict from the perspective of the victim to his death? That would avoid a flashback. There's also the classic solution of having characters talk about it in some way or another. If the protagonist is a known enemy of the victim, perhaps there could be a police investigation where their grudge is discussed, or an instance where a friend/loved one of the murdered seeks out the protagonist, suspecting the grudge could have been involved in the murder. Just some rough ideas.

If it's a YA, arguably the most important feature is simply good characters. YA books tend to thrive when the cast is the focus, possibly more than other genres.

I can’t think of any (genre) reverse mysteries in YA off the top of my head, but you certainly can’t go wrong checking out the big mystery hitters in YA right now. One of Us is Lying and Holly Jackson’s books are very popular, and even folks who don’t usually read YA mention reading them to me. There’s a recommendation thread in the stickies, and I bet those who read more contemporary YA will have more recs. I’m more SFF, which often has a mystery element to it, so sometimes I have trouble separating out what’s a YA mystery & what just has a mystery involved.

Seconded on the One of Us is Lying point (A Good Girl's Guide to Murder also comes to mind as a popular YA mystery). I think these are also good examples where the mystery is secondary to the characterization. In contrast to like, Agatha Christie books for example, where of course Poirot will solve the mystery because that's literally his job, YA cares a lot about why does the teenaged protagonist want to solve the mystery, and all the relationships formed in the process. The stakes also tend to be personal.

 

[BustedPrinter]

I did an almost YA novel one time.

I employed the use of my oldest daughter to help me work through the teenage elements of it and really knit together three foster sisters. I really played up what I had experienced as a foster parent, the odd-girl out situation when a foster child first comes to a foster home and how she is discounted by the others... for awhile. Then as bonds grow, they become close. The novel came across as realistic because I watched the dynamics play out in my own house. How sisters will squabble all the time with one another, like "she played with my Barbie Dolls", but then at a playground have another kid push one of them, and instantly all four sisters would surround the poor kid and ask, "Did you just push my sister"? It was always neat to see how close and protective they really were of one another even if the bonds were not biological.

All this was woven into a pretty good story anyway that had a pet bunny that was almost a main character until its own. It played a HUGE role in the plot, final action scene, and even the ending.

My daughters (age 11. 16 and 17) have all asked to read it, and they can someday, but it had a sex scene in it, :-(

I would just include a fade to black type of sex scene, BUT the adults in this novel had a huge love/hate relationship so the sex scene was a HUGE part of the plotline. That is typical of my novels though. Unless the sex is truly monumental to the story, I do not include one. With this novel, it completely changed the dynamic of the two adults, and cited the sisters to band together to stop them from being together.

 

[BustedPrinter]

I can’t think of any (genre) reverse mysteries in YA off the top of my head, but you certainly can’t go wrong checking out the big mystery hitters in YA right now. One of Us is Lying and Holly Jackson’s books are very popular, and even folks who don’t usually read YA mention reading them to me. There’s a recommendation thread in the stickies, and I bet those who read more contemporary YA will have more recs. I’m more SFF, which often has a mystery element to it, so sometimes I have trouble separating out what’s a YA mystery & what just has a mystery involved.

I hear you.

Reverse mysteries are so hard to write anyway that they are not all that common. The real issue is, they either work or they don't. Its not like the typical mystery where it can be okay but not great. Not with reverse mysteries, it is all or nothing. You see that with some Colombo Episodes, they are either really good, or the sucked; no real in-between.

I think another reason you don't see them in YA novels though is that most reverse mysteries are police procedural in nature, it is often above the capacity of young adults. They might have heard of DNA testing, but what about Luminol, Amino Black, Super Glue Fuming and Gold Vaporization Deposition Testing? That kind of thing might lose some younger readers.

I am still going to do a reverse mystery YA, but there is no doubt it will be a challenge.

 

[Sage]

Yeah, a police procedural wouldn’t work in YA. These are going to be amateur sleuths, solving a mystery despite adults telling them to stay out of it or because adults don’t believe there’s a mystery to solve.

I also don’t think reverse mystery as a genre necessarily needs those elements you mention. when I think of those I’ve encountered (tv), none of those items comes into play. The police might be using those things, but whoever we’re following is using their detective skills.

 

[Jazz Club]

In YA, there are sometimes ways around this problem of the kids not having access to police knowledge/procedures. For example, if one of their parents is a serving officer, it's logical that they would have heard of some cop-like things that regular kids wouldn't know. This is how it works in Lies Like Wildfire by Jennifer Lynn Alvarez. I can't say very much about the plot without giving the whole story away, but the MC's father is a cop, which gives her some insider info.

 

[KennyIsArlos]

I think another reason you don't see them in YA novels though is that most reverse mysteries are police procedural in nature, it is often above the capacity of young adults. They might have heard of DNA testing, but what about Luminol, Amino Black, Super Glue Fuming and Gold Vaporization Deposition Testing? That kind of thing might lose some younger readers.

In YA, there are sometimes ways around this problem of the kids not having access to police knowledge/procedures. For example, if one of their parents is a serving officer, it's logical that they would have heard of some cop-like things that regular kids wouldn't know. This is how it works in Lies Like Wildfire by Jennifer Lynn Alvarez. I can't say very much about the plot without giving the whole story away, but the MC's father is a cop, which gives her some insider info.

This reminds me of Death Note! The protagonist, a high-school guy, hacks into his dad's (the chief officer of the Japanese Task Force) work files to get criminals records so he can kill those criminals. That's a fun way to have a YA-aged character go about police procedures, by stealing the information from their parents. Asking is probably better, though... Another option is that they could be taking an advanced/AP forensics class haha! Or even doing a mentorship class (I had one in hs, so can confirm they exist!).

I wish you good luck with your reverse mystery, BustedPrinter. You've got this!

To add a new topic to discuss, what's everyone's favorite genre to read in YA? What about your favorite to write?

My favorite genre to read, just based on my bookshelf, is contemporary fantasy or dystopian thriller. Can't go wrong with a coming-of-age contemporary with a romantic subplot and strong friendship themes! I'm really enjoying writing urban fantasy right now, so I'll stick with that for my answer, but horror will always be my first love. I already have some stories planned to put my UF characters in some horror shorts. They may or may not die brutally, but that's the fun of horror! You get to be extra creative with death scenes.

 

[MaeZe]

..... I think another reason you don't see them in YA novels though is that most reverse mysteries are police procedural in nature, it is often above the capacity of young adults. They might have heard of DNA testing, but what about Luminol, Amino Black, Super Glue Fuming and Gold Vaporization Deposition Testing? That kind of thing might lose some younger readers.

Woo-boy, how many young adults do you know?

Best to write the story you want to tell and trust the readers to sort it out.

 

[Unimportant]

I did an almost YA novel one time.

I employed the use of my oldest daughter to help me work through the teenage elements of it and really knit together three foster sisters. I really played up what I had experienced as a foster parent, the odd-girl out situation when a foster child first comes to a foster home and how she is discounted by the others... for awhile. Then as bonds grow, they become close. The novel came across as realistic because I watched the dynamics play out in my own house. How sisters will squabble all the time with one another, like "she played with my Barbie Dolls", but then at a playground have another kid push one of them, and instantly all four sisters would surround the poor kid and ask, "Did you just push my sister"? It was always neat to see how close and protective they really were of one another even if the bonds were not biological.

I love this.

All this was woven into a pretty good story anyway that had a pet bunny that was almost a main character until its own. It played a HUGE role in the plot, final action scene, and even the ending.

This sounded great and I was totally with you until the pet bunny and my mind went to the Fatal Attraction movie and I was all NOOOOOOO! But hopefully that's not where your writer's mind went...

 

[Sage]

To add a new topic to discuss, what's everyone's favorite genre to read in YA? What about your favorite to write?

YA fantasy to read. I love sci-fi too, but haven’t had as much luck finding YA SF that I love as fantasy. Right now I’m really digging anything with an Asian-based fantasy world, which fortunately are easy to find the past few years. I’ll also read any YA genre with LGBTQIA+ characters.

For writing, I still love fantasy, but I’ve actually gravitated towards more SF over the years. Total books written, it’s probably an even split, but except for the paranormal bromance & my Jack Frost novels, I tend to go to the SF books when I revisit them.

But I hardly write anymore

 

[Unimportant]

As a YA reader, I go for +1queer and: 1. dystopia. 2. F. 3. UF. 4. Yeah nah reallynotmuchelse. But that's just me, one reader. I don't write it at all. Feel free to ignore.

 

[BustedPrinter]

I love this.

This sounded great and I was totally with you until the pet bunny and my mind went to the Fatal Attraction movie and I was all NOOOOOOO! But hopefully that's not where your writer's mind went...

No, probably not since I have never seen Fatal Attraction.

No, just a five year old kid with a pet bunny that is her sense of security. It goes with her everywhere much to the chagrin of her kidnappers.

 

[Jazz Club]

This reminds me of Death Note! The protagonist, a high-school guy, hacks into his dad's (the chief officer of the Japanese Task Force) work files to get criminals records so he can kill those criminals. That's a fun way to have a YA-aged character go about police procedures, by stealing the information from their parents.

Or even getting their younger brother to hack, like in my book

Asking is probably better, though... Another option is that they could be taking an advanced/AP forensics class haha! Or even doing a mentorship class (I had one in hs, so can confirm they exist!).

That's cool! I remember a cop coming to our school to teach some of us some forensics stuff. We watched a sketch artist work etc. Pretty interesting!

To add a new topic to discuss, what's everyone's favorite genre to read in YA? What about your favorite to write?

To write has got to be contemporary or contemporary/thriller. To read, the same or maybe dystopian. I love reading those, but I don't think I'd be as good as writing them for whatever reason.

To continue the question theme, what are people's fave YA tropes? I like friendships across 'divides', whether that's kids from different cliques becoming friends, or from different social classes, or even from outright warring families like in Romeo and Juliet. I also love it when the kids are more mature/capable than the adults, or when the adults have made a mess of society and the kids have to offer hope for the future!

 

[KennyIsArlos]

But I hardly write anymore

That's okay! Your ideas aren't going anywhere, especially if you write them down, so take all the time you need to make something amazing. If you want, that is!

Or even getting their younger brother to hack, like in my book

Jesse would be an absolute menace in a murder mystery! As long as the killer doesn't stash a body in the trunk...

To write has got to be contemporary or contemporary/thriller. To read, the same or maybe dystopian. I love reading those, but I don't think I'd be as good as writing them for whatever reason.

Tbh I'd love to see your attempt at dystopian. Your writing style makes me think you'd knock it out of the park! Looking at the next Veronica Roth or Suzanne Collins.

To continue the question theme, what are people's fave YA tropes?

Found family, easily. Especially when they start out hating each other, but they're practically siblings by the end of the book/series. Along with this, the "rag tag team of misfits" trope. Everyone clashes at every point possible, yet they all bring something vital to the table! Also the realistic type of "friendship is magic," where the characters don't suddenly gain a power-up because their friend is in trouble, but they'll completely expend themselves if it means the slightest chance of saving them, and they just barely manage to prevail. Love isn't just a weakness for villains to exploit, it's a strength!

 

[Jazz Club]

That's okay! Your ideas aren't going anywhere, especially if you write them down, so take all the time you need to make something amazing. If you want, that is!

Jesse would be an absolute menace in a murder mystery! As long as the killer doesn't stash a body in the trunk...

Nooo don't lock poor sweet Jesse in the boot with a body...

Tbh I'd love to see your attempt at dystopian. Your writing style makes me think you'd knock it out of the park! Looking at the next Veronica Roth or Suzanne Collins.

Lol dunno about that. I think you're a lot better at out of the ordinary horrifying stuff like that. I like to stick to real-world scary stuff like political corruption...scary enough for me!

Found family, easily. Especially when they start out hating each other, but they're practically siblings by the end of the book/series. Along with this, the "rag tag team of misfits" trope. Everyone clashes at every point possible, yet they all bring something vital to the table! Also the realistic type of "friendship is magic," where the characters don't suddenly gain a power-up because their friend is in trouble, but they'll completely expend themselves if it means the slightest chance of saving them, and they just barely manage to prevail. Love isn't just a weakness for villains to exploit, it's a strength!

Yes, exactly! I love it when the villains spend a lot of time laughing at the good guys for being so 'soft and weak', only to find that decency turned against them

Also love the rag tag team, especially when they start off contemptuous of each other, but are eventually forced to respect each other's strengths. Like the streetwise kid realises that the 'sheltered' kid's knowledge of obscure classical music somehow holds the key to the whole mystery! Or the posh kid realises that the less wealthy kids know just as much as he does...

 

[Nastya]

I order matcha lattes at coffee shops whenever possible (oh, the irony), especially if I'm unfamiliar with the place. Poorly sweetened grass water is usually just a little tasteless, while poorly sweetened bean water is a crime against humanity. Without that option, something vanilla or brown sugar usually hits the spot.

Since this is a book thread, what's your MC's coffee shop order and why?

My go-to order is always a cup of jasmine tea and a raspberry danish.

My MC’s order would probably be some sort of chocolate drink with a strawberry muffin because she’s kind of a hopeless romantic and I think she would like the sweetness.

 

[Sage]

Three hours to my birthday!

I will continue to be older than some and younger than others.

AW seems to think it’s my birthday already. Wonder what time zone it thinks I’m in…

 

[JoeySL]

Three hours to my birthday!

I will continue to be older than some and younger than others.

AW seems to think it’s my birthday already. Wonder what time zone it thinks I’m in…

Happy Birthday!

 

[BustedPrinter]

Three hours to my birthday!

I will continue to be older than some and younger than others.

AW seems to think it’s my birthday already. Wonder what time zone it thinks I’m in…

Happy Birthday.

I just had one the other day, having reached 50 years old.

My wife shares hers with you, and is 51.

 

[KennyIsArlos]

Three hours to my birthday!

I will continue to be older than some and younger than others.

AW seems to think it’s my birthday already. Wonder what time zone it thinks I’m in…

Happy birthday! Your post was at 12:04AM for me, so it might be in Eastern time.

My sister's birthday is also today, so I hope you're both having a great day.

 

[Sage]

It’s a good time to have a birthday

 

[susanthebookish]

Read and loved both of the listed books around age 8-10. To my understanding, animal novels, even ones with grimmer themes, tend to lean toward a younger audience. There are exceptions of course, but most tend to be considered MG books. Not saying that doesn't mean your daughter will enjoy them, but perhaps something to keep in mind.

Haha, have you ever read Watership Down? I'm still trying to figure out if it's adult or children's There was an author interview at the back of the copy I read, and even he didn't seem to be sure...

 

[L.Zihe]

Haha, have you ever read Watership Down? I'm still trying to figure out if it's adult or children's There was an author interview at the back of the copy I read, and even he didn't seem to be sure...

I haven't read it but I've heard the plot and...yeah um. I must wonder what kind of child wanted a grim story of rabbits living in existential fear. Interesting book though!

 

[L.Zihe]

Three hours to my birthday!

I will continue to be older than some and younger than others.

AW seems to think it’s my birthday already. Wonder what time zone it thinks I’m in…

Happy (a smidge belated?) birthday! Here's to another great anniversary of womb eviction!

 

[Maryn]

Can a grizzled erotica author who's got a rough outline for a YA hang out here? My story involves time travel and the MC's attempt to change the past--of his father.

Maryn, only slightly grizzled